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silentt29

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I've been thinking about the kind of step-up turntable ($1,000 - $4,000) I would want. For sound quality's sake, I've been considering going direct-drive, specifically a Technics SL-1500C to eventually replace my $500 belt-driven U-Turn Orbit. In addition to the speed accuracy, a direct-drive's ability to play 78-rpm records is a benefit for me. However, I do prefer the aesthetic characteristics of many hi-fi or mid-fi belt-driven turntables (like some VPIs, Clearaudio Concept, or the Thorens TD 1600), and most modern direct-drives are visually kind of bland. They're not ugly, just boring (almost unimaginative) in my opinion.

Any suggestions for direct-drive turntables, especially those with visual appeal?

Besides the Technics SL-1500C, I've been considering a vintage direct-drive, like the Denon DP-1000, or something similar.
 

DSJR

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I do wish I was still around regularly in the industry to do comparisons. My two suggested decks would be the 1500C and Rega Planar 6 which sadly takes a massive price hike in the US :(

All decks like this I'd suggest using with lid off (sound-board otherwise) and in th ecase of this Techie, the 2M Red could be very usefully upgraded with a 2M Bronze stylus (the Blue is a bit too fussy), which keeps the 'bouncy' OM based Ortofon sonics but with the refinement of the better stylus profile. Site well away from the speakers on a light but solid support.

Some Denon decks were little more than a thin not well isolated box with the drive mounted on top. If this is the case, mid bass quality will suffer if the deck isn't very carefully indeed sited. I admit I don't know them all by any means.
 

Wes

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Denon DP-1000 definitely has the looks.

As to SQ, I haven't seen any real measurements done. Maybe you want TWO Turntables?
 
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silentt29

silentt29

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Denon DP-1000 definitely has the looks.

As to SQ, I haven't seen any real measurements done. Maybe you want TWO Turntables?
I have thought about that: a solid and visually pretty belt-drive, and maybe a direct-drive for 78-rpm and mono.
 

DVDdoug

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Disclaimer - I'm not a vinyl guy... I grew-up with vinyl and I ALWAYS hated the "snap", "crackle" and "pop". It was especially annoying when it was my record and I knew when that click was coming... I'd be sitting there waiting for the click instead of enjoying the music. I was amazed when I heard (or didn't hear) the dead-silent background from a CD.

I've been thinking about the kind of step-up turntable ($1,000 - $4,000) I would want. For sound quality's sake,
Upgrading from what?

For me, $1000 is too much for something that's NEVER going to sound as good as my $50 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD player. I know some vinyl lovers spend a lot more than that but they still aren't getting "digital quality". With analog you can get better sound if you pay more and I wouldn't go too cheap but you quickly get into diminishing returns. If I was buying a new turntable (which I only use to very-occasionally digitize vinyl) I'd probably be looking in the $300-$500 range, including the cartridge. And, I'd probably look for one with USB and line outputs. Cartridges are something like headphones... They all sound different (and some do track better than others) but more money doesn't necessarily buy better sound and in a blind listening test you probably wouldn't choose a super-expensive/exotic one.

I've only owned 2 "good" turntables and I NEVER heard any defects from the turntable itself (wow & flutter or rumble, etc.). I still have one of the less-expensive Techincs direct-drive models with what I think was the "best" Shure cartridge available at the time (one with a built-in brush). The cartridge can make a difference and I did go through several cartridge changes/upgrades back when I was trying to improve the sound. At least I THINK a different cartridge made a difference but I never did any proper A/B tests (I'd never heard of an ABX test). But the main difference I heard (if it was real) was frequency response. It's kind-of silly to change/upgrade a cartridge instead of using tone controls and I did own an equalizer. The worst part was that most records at that time just didn't very good... The "gems" were rare... I ASSUME modern records are better and more consistent but I haven't bought a record since I bought my 1st CD player.
 
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silentt29

silentt29

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Disclaimer - I'm not a vinyl guy... I grew-up with vinyl and I ALWAYS hated the "snap", "crackle" and "pop". It was especially annoying when it was my record and I knew when that click was coming... I'd be sitting there waiting for the click instead of enjoying the music. I was amazed when I heard (or didn't hear) the dead-silent background from a CD.

Upgrading from what?

For me, $1000 is too much for something that's NEVER going to sound as good as my $50 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD player. I know some vinyl lovers spend a lot more than that but they still aren't getting "digital quality". With analog you can get better sound if you pay more and I wouldn't go too cheap but you quickly get into diminishing returns. If I was buying a new turntable (which I only use to very-occasionally digitize vinyl) I'd probably be looking in the $300-$500 range, including the cartridge. And, I'd probably look for one with USB and line outputs. Cartridges are something like headphones... They all sound different (and some do track better than others) but more money doesn't necessarily buy better sound and in a blind listening test you probably wouldn't choose a super-expensive/exotic one.

I've only owned 2 "good" turntables and I NEVER heard any defects from the turntable itself (wow & flutter or rumble, etc.). I still have one of the less-expensive Techincs direct-drive models with what I think was the "best" Shure cartridge available at the time (one with a built-in brush). The cartridge can make a difference and I did go through several cartridge changes/upgrades back when I was trying to improve the sound. At least I THINK a different cartridge made a difference but I never did any proper A/B tests (I'd never heard of an ABX test). But the main difference I heard (if it was real) was frequency response. It's kind-of silly to change/upgrade a cartridge instead of using tone controls and I did own an equalizer. The worst part was that most records at that time just didn't very good... The "gems" were rare... I ASSUME modern records are better and more consistent but I haven't bought a record since I bought my 1st CD player.

I own and enjoy a lot of vinyl, as well as digital forms, like CDs, .WAVs, and .MP3s. I'm not interested in upgrading my CD player at the moment, and I recently upgraded my DAC to a Schiit Modi 3+, based on Amir's recommendation.


to eventually replace my $500 belt-driven U-Turn Orbit
Upgrading from a U-Turn Orbit belt-driven turntable.

What I'm mostly interested in is speed accuracy, of which direct-drive turntables (like the $1,200 Technics SL-1500C) are known for. Some people claim belt-drives exceed performance due to an offset motor, minimizing unwanted vibration. I'm not necessarily concerned about that, if it even exists to a magnitude that'll audibly affect sound. I'm simply interested in making my analog music sound the best it can.
 

TulseLuper

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I got an SL-1500C in January. From a user experience point of view it's an excellent table. Great build quality, attractive and confidence inspiring. Since I don't enjoy tinkering, I am without envy.

I do not use the built-in preamp, but I'm glad it's there.
 

Helicopter

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Wait for the new SL-100C to hit the market, hopefully in the next few weeks. It is a 1500C with no phono preamp and it comes with an AT-VM95C cartridge that will take a ML stylus. The Ortofon Red bundled with the 1500C can only be upgraded to Blue. Black/Bronze is a different body. You should really get the benefit of an advanced stylus shape if it is in the budget. Best bet though is throw that VM-95C in a drawer and get yourself a MC cart with an advanced stylus.

Option B, the vintage route... that is also a good way to go. The Denons are sweet. Obviously the Bluray player speed controller on the current Technics decks is going to be better than anything vintage, but quartz and servo controls should still be superb. Really, a TT just needs to spin at the right speed and transfer the right vibrations properly. It is a pretty easy job compared to a cartridge or speaker.

Unfortunately, there is nothing above (or beside) Technics in new DD TTs. All the other stuff is lower quality DJ stuff that even DJs should avoid when they can get the SL-1200 Mk7.

SL-1200G and SL-1200GR look awesome to me, but I like the aesthetic. These are Japanese while the 100C, 1500C and 1200 Mk7 are assembled in Malaysia. A couple SL-1200s are the main rigs in my systems, though I have a stack of other TTs, mostly other Technics vintage.
 

Chrispy

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Didn't know there was a Technics dd table that could do 78rpm, interesting....but then again I haven't even seen a 78 in something like 40 years....
 

anmpr1

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1) The Denon is from 1974. Be careful about spending a lot of money on anything that old, unless you can fix it. Denon frequently used a magnetic servo (tape head) feedback circuit to maintain speed accuracy, and some of their tonearms used electro-mechanical resonance damping motors. My guess is that those mechanisms are unfixable by anyone, today.

2) That said, DD record players are generally known for longevity. I have an SL-1100a from 1975 that runs like new.

3) That said, I have a Garrard Z-100 record player from 1972 that still runs like new. However my Dual 704 from 1977 recently gave up the ghost. Once dead it's typically trash bin time for old machines. A Dual electronic DD could possibly be fixed, but you have to ask yourself whether it is worth your (or someone else's) time and money?

4) Denons generally had no suspension (or really any acoustic isolation to speak of). Denon accessory solid wood bases were quite lightweight and resonant. Looked nice but didn't provide for much insulation from external vibration. Upper level Denon integrated (arm and turntable) players usually featured a laminated faux rosewood glossy finish that looked fantastic, but was actually only for looks. Those bases were often simply hollow frames, or pressed particle board sitting on a plastic foot with felt or rubber on the bottom.

5) SL-1200 Mk variants are pretty well isolated from acoustic feedback (using a lot of mass and rubber damping). Unfortunately, as with most things, inflation and cost cutting are the norm. In 2005 I paid $500.00 for my (made in Japan) Mk5. The current Mk7 (made in Malaysia) is one thousand dollars. It would surprise me if the new ones are built as well as the previous Mk models, but I don't have first hand experience with the newer ones.

Of course the current 'audiophile version' (Japanese made) 1200 sells for four thousand dollars. That model is going to have the best fit and finish, is the one that will no doubt provide the best acoustic isolation, and the one most likely to last another fifty years (or longer).

6) 78 rpm is a nice addition (and necessary if you have 78s in your collection). Otherwise it makes using a Discwasher brush quicker, but that is about it.

7) If you don't need pitch control (I've never used mine) the 1500C appears to be decent value, considering what is out there. You get a phono stage and an Ortofon cartridge, which may or may not be important to you. For a budget oriented purchase, I would buy one of those (or possibly the Mk7) over a 50 year old Denon record player. If I wanted total quality, the $4000.00 model would be my choice.
 
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