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Mobile Fidelity Analog Vinyl Controversy

DMill

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They better get Andrew Jones to design a killer pair of speakers cause I suspect vinyl sales are going to be down at MoFI. At least they still have cool t-shirts.
 

Somafunk

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At least they still have cool t-shirts.

Maybe so but I’m not interested unless they are certified organic cotton with a hand blocked print using rare earth mineral dyes.
 

DMill

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Maybe so but I’m not interested unless they are certified organic cotton with a hand blocked print using rare earth mineral dyes.
Of course that’s what they are telling us they are. But my guess is the impressions on those shirts were created with a device that has a computer in the chain. Those evil bastards.
 

Somafunk

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But my guess is the impressions on those shirts were created with a device that has a computer in the chain. Those evil bastards.

Huh? :eek:……..WHAT?……those lying bastards…….I was led to believe the design was sketched out on a beer mat after a boozy listening session before passing out in a tangle of priceless Bob Dylan master tape.…..Jeez!, this just goes from bad to ”Oh my god you are literally sacrificing our childrens thoughts and dreams with your lies”.

When will this deception end?
 

mhardy6647

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Huh? :eek:……..WHAT?……those lying bastards…….I was led to believe the design was sketched out on a beer mat after a boozy listening session before passing out in a tangle of priceless Bob Dylan master tape.…..Jeez!, this just goes from bad to ”Oh my god you are literally sacrificing our childrens thoughts and dreams with your lies”.

When will this deception end?
so... you're basically OK with it, then?
;)
 

Somafunk

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so... you're basically OK with it, then?

Well…………I admit I don’t own/have any children of my own, nor do I own any vinyl or means of vinyl playback so I guess I’m ok with it :confused:?, nor do I care for a mofi t shirt but everyone else online is shitting on them and I felt kinda left out.

Thats how this online thingy works ain’t it?
 

Miker 1102

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There is a lot here if you break it down. The fact that this man believed this was rather foolish and really shows the underpinnings of an entire industry. How he could think that there are all these master tapes out there that MOFI was just getting access to and then having a full analog processs for remastering to vinyl makes no sense. The sad truth is that this is a very small company that is using a few audio engineers and digital DSD tracks. The money is in limiting the nature of the vinyl copies that go out. If you think about it it's brilliant. If you offered the DSD tracks as as FLAC conversion you wouldn't make the huge margins. Vinyl is a preference. Maybe the market is there anyway but I wonder based on this guy's reaction. It's the whole snake oil perception of your going to get the best "audio" sound out there. This manipulative approach is used by you tubers like GR Reasearch as they make money off of people's lack of understanding and appeal to thier sense of elitism.
 

krabapple

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Digital mastering doesn't make LP playback "non analog" or turn it into a FLAC.

I don't even get why anyone would think this would happen. (Or why it would make a difference..a FLAC is sonically identical to whatever it was made from)
 

krabapple

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Their website says they use a proprietary transfer method, from the original tapes - "First and foremost, we only utilize first generation original master recordings as source material for our releases." - which is true.

They don't say they cut vinyl directly from the master tapes, and never have. I think some of their customers have assumed that.

They also talk about their "One Step" vinyl process - but that explicitly refers to their lacquer and vinyl pressing process, not their mastering process.


A digital delay line became a common part of the cutting process in the late 1970s. (Yes, that means many beloved 'analog' products back then had a digital step). I wonder how many record companies still use one.
 

krabapple

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I agree wholeheartedly. I love my vinyl, even for vintage non-technical recordings like my 1964 copy of Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln from Disneyland. I think the real benefit, which parallels high-resolution audio is that the mixes are different.

The mixes aren't different unless a different mix was used for vinyl vs CD. Which is pretty rare.

The mastering is usually what's different.
 

Ken1951

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It all comes down to one simple thing: Anything Digital in any way, shape, or form = Bad/Evil/Unholy/Spawn of Satan/Dirty/Infected.
 

krabapple

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How do they do their mastering from DSD? Analog? Or in audio workstation in PCM?

Yeah, that's seems a bit of audiophile magical thinking on their part...that DSD makes it all better. (Or are they really using one of the 'DSD wide' flavors of DSD? I.e. not 1 bit, i.e., it's 'PCM narrow')

Or, they are buying into the original intent of DSD transfer ...to serve as an archival digital copy of analog tapes? Though hi rez PCM would serve as well for that of course.

I also wonder if they get to keep their DSD copy or does it have to be handed over to the original label?
 

krabapple

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The difficulty of digitization of vinyl results from the suppression of the crackles. Is there a simple software for this ?

One can try to minimize them from the start, making the digital 'declicking' process 'safer'. (It is entirely possible to over-declick, though tools have gotten very good).

I would only ever do all this...indeed only ever bother with vinyl....when the record/track is absolutely unavailable in decent digital form.

To minimize,
-- buy unplayed records
-- clean them*
-- use a properly set up table with a brand new stylus
-- play the record once

Voila! ;)

(*the few times I've needed to do LP to digital transfer in the last few years, I used the wood glue method , which not only works but is kinda fun to do)
 

beefkabob

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I don't, but can the typical laptop ADC record DSD or do you need better quality equipment? I mean it is a show of extra effort (hopefully translating to more care) on the part of the label, not that it is necessarily better quality wise.
If there's one thing that Amir has shown us for sure, it's that different isn't necessarily better. In fact, it's usually worse and more expensive.
 

krabapple

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Sorry, you can't use non-AB testing as proof in one instance and not in another.

Scientifically, (it's in the name of the site) if we take them not noticing as proof then we have to accept the times they do notice also as proof.

It is a theme I see over and over on here: as long as the results prove the sites stated argument then it doesn't matter how they were achieved. If they disprove it then the similar methods were flawed. I'm still waiting for the final "My wife came in from the kitchen and said 'Those two amps sound identical'" as proof that all amps sound the same though.

What has been proved without a doubt is that LPs cut with a digital step in the chain can elicit rapturous reviews about their *sound*, which was often (wrongly) attributed to the all-analog provenance.
 

krabapple

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One thing not mentioned is that (AFAIR) Mofi does NOT claim that its LPs or CDs or SACDs, though sourced from the original master tapes, represent the sound of *flat transfers* from those source tapes. IOW, MofI always has reserved the right to tweak the sound of the OMTs for release on its label.

If you entirely forego digital for an LP release, you have to either *make a tape copy* of the OMT, with your mastering moves on that, OR, do *all* of your mastering moves at the cutting stage.
 
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