Mixed Genelec monitors okay for this space?

[Mort]

I have a bedroom for which I want 5.1 active speakers for streaming. I'd like to meet these conditions.

• The Left, Right and 2x surrounds have to be quite small and wall mountable. (Center will be under the TV and can be larger. )
• Room is 15x10 and this will be 90% video at modest volumes, never very loud. 75 Spl at 12 feet maybe.
• Room Comp and Bass management are covered. I'll be using REW, MiniDSP console and DiracLive.
• Cute is essential. Partner acceptance factor is key for this.

I decided to go Genelec in white and I have assembled this group of used speakers from Ebay and other sources:

• Left Genelec G Two
• Center Genelec 8040B
• Right Genelec G Two
• Surround 2x Genelec 8010A
• Subwoofer Rythmik F12 (white)

I have some specific comments and questions if you don't mind responding.

1. Are my left/right's big enough to support desired SPL? (Note: This is not for 2ch music at all.) I think they do albeit barely.
2. The source is RCA 2v from a MiniDSP Flex HT so I'll be using RCA to XLR cables for the 8040B and 8010A. Should be fine?
3. The run for the rear surround 8010A is quite long, 30 feet or so. Again, I think fine?
4. Center is significantly higher capacity than the L/R and surrounds and more than I need. I just got a good deal on it. I could sell it and buy something smaller, save a few hundred, but not sure that's worth the effort?
5. Is there any fidelity or tonal issue with mixing the 80XX units with the G Two units?
   
   
   

 

[NTK]

1. Are my left/right's big enough to support desired SPL? (Note: This is not for 2ch music at all.) I think they do albeit barely.
2. The source is RCA 2v from a MiniDSP Flex HT so I'll be using RCA to XLR cables for the 8040B and 8010A. Should be fine?
3. The run for the rear surround 8010A is quite long, 30 feet or so. Again, I think fine?
4. Center is significantly higher capacity than the L/R and surrounds and more than I need. I just got a good deal on it. I could sell it and buy something smaller, save a few hundred, but not sure that's worth the effort?
5. Is there any fidelity or tonal issue with mixing the 80XX units with the G Two units?

1. TL/DR — should be fine for your listening level.
   Below is the method ANSI/CTA-2034 used to estimate in-room SPL requirement for a pair of speakers.
   For the "corrections", the +3 dB is from the summing of uncorrelated signals from a pair of speakers; the +6 dB is from room boundary gains (i.e. speakers are not radiating into fully open space, or anechoic chambers); and the -12 dB is from the 4 m (~13 ft) distance attenuation.
   Therefore, the estimated max in-room SPL using the formula is the max rated SPL of your G Two (rated at short term 100 dB, long term 93 dB) minus 3 dB. Your bedroom is also smaller than the typical listening rooms, and the estimate will be on the conservative side.
   
   
2. TL/DR — should be enough.
   Using the high sensitivity setting, the 8010 needs -6 dBu (= 0.39 Vrms) to output 100 dBSPL @ 1 m (8010's short term rated max is 96 dBSPL), and should be more than enough. Even with the normal setting (10 dB less sensitive), 1.2 Vrms (= 4 dBu) will get you 100 dBSPL @ 1 m. (Below taken from the manual)
   
   
   
   
3. Probably fine.
4. If the significantly larger size of 8040B doesn't bother you visually, no negative with keeping it.
5. If you look at the frequency response curves of the G series vs their equivalent 80XX versions, they are identical. Hard for me to believe they aren't basically the same speakers (except of course the G series have RCA inputs and the 80XX have XLR).

 

[Mort]

1. TL/DR — should be fine for your listening level.
   Below is the method ANSI/CTA-2034 used to estimate in-room SPL requirement for a pair of speakers.
   For the "corrections", the +3 dB is from the summing of uncorrelated signals from a pair of speakers; the +6 dB is from room boundary gains (i.e. speakers are not radiating into fully open space, or anechoic chambers); and the -12 dB is from the 4 m (~13 ft) distance attenuation.
   Therefore, the estimated max in-room SPL using the formula is the max rated SPL of your G Two (rated at short term 100 dB, long term 93 dB) minus 3 dB. Your bedroom is also smaller than the typical listening rooms, and the estimate will be on the conservative side.
   View attachment 423506
2. TL/DR — should be enough.
   Using the high sensitivity setting, the 8010 needs -6 dBu (= 0.39 Vrms) to output 100 dBSPL @ 1 m (8010's short term rated max is 96 dBSPL), and should be more than enough. Even with the normal setting (10 dB less sensitive), 1.2 Vrms (= 4 dBu) will get you 100 dBSPL @ 1 m. (Below taken from the manual)
   View attachment 423510
   
3. Probably fine.
4. If the significantly larger size of 8040B doesn't bother you visually, no negative with keeping it.
5. If you look at the frequency response curves of the G series vs their equivalent 80XX versions, they are identical. Hard for me to believe they aren't basically the same speakers (except of course the G series have RCA inputs and the 80XX have XLR).

Just wanted to appreciate the thoroughness of your reply. Thank you!

 

[Miguelón]

I have a bedroom for which I want 5.1 active speakers for streaming. I'd like to meet these conditions.

• The Left, Right and 2x surrounds have to be quite small and wall mountable. (Center will be under the TV and can be larger. )
• Room is 15x10 and this will be 90% video at modest volumes, never very loud. 75 Spl at 12 feet maybe.
• Room Comp and Bass management are covered. I'll be using REW, MiniDSP console and DiracLive.
• Cute is essential. Partner acceptance factor is key for this.

I decided to go Genelec in white and I have assembled this group of used speakers from Ebay and other sources:

• Left Genelec G Two
• Center Genelec 8040B
• Right Genelec G Two
• Surround 2x Genelec 8010A
• Subwoofer Rythmik F12 (white)

I have some specific comments and questions if you don't mind responding.

1. Are my left/right's big enough to support desired SPL? (Note: This is not for 2ch music at all.) I think they do albeit barely.
2. The source is RCA 2v from a MiniDSP Flex HT so I'll be using RCA to XLR cables for the 8040B and 8010A. Should be fine?
3. The run for the rear surround 8010A is quite long, 30 feet or so. Again, I think fine?
4. Center is significantly higher capacity than the L/R and surrounds and more than I need. I just got a good deal on it. I could sell it and buy something smaller, save a few hundred, but not sure that's worth the effort?
5. Is there any fidelity or tonal issue with mixing the 80XX units with the G Two units?
   
   View attachment 423455

I had both 8020 and G Two at home, definitely different tonality (also G Three and 8030C, which I have actually at home: impossible to pair).

Better go to the 8020D if you can, usually is cheaper and sounds more on the 8040 side

 

[Miguelón]

1. TL/DR — should be fine for your listening level.
   Below is the method ANSI/CTA-2034 used to estimate in-room SPL requirement for a pair of speakers.
   For the "corrections", the +3 dB is from the summing of uncorrelated signals from a pair of speakers; the +6 dB is from room boundary gains (i.e. speakers are not radiating into fully open space, or anechoic chambers); and the -12 dB is from the 4 m (~13 ft) distance attenuation.
   Therefore, the estimated max in-room SPL using the formula is the max rated SPL of your G Two (rated at short term 100 dB, long term 93 dB) minus 3 dB. Your bedroom is also smaller than the typical listening rooms, and the estimate will be on the conservative side.
   View attachment 423506
2. TL/DR — should be enough.
   Using the high sensitivity setting, the 8010 needs -6 dBu (= 0.39 Vrms) to output 100 dBSPL @ 1 m (8010's short term rated max is 96 dBSPL), and should be more than enough. Even with the normal setting (10 dB less sensitive), 1.2 Vrms (= 4 dBu) will get you 100 dBSPL @ 1 m. (Below taken from the manual)
   View attachment 423510
3. Probably fine.
4. If the significantly larger size of 8040B doesn't bother you visually, no negative with keeping it.
5. If you look at the frequency response curves of the G series vs their equivalent 80XX versions, they are identical. Hard for me to believe they aren't basically the same speakers (except of course the G series have RCA inputs and the 80XX have XLR).

They aren’t the same speakers, I had 8020 and F Two (which distorts a lot in low end) and actually 8030C and G Three (B version). Going to sell or return G Three if dealer accepts.

When I had 8020D and F Two we were surprised at home with the difference (even matching 8020 to G Two sensitivity), having seen the graphs at Genelec site. F Two is messy at mid range (in comparison, still a good desktop speaker), whereas 8020D is cristal clear there. Thought was a bad unit so returned it and bought another, but same thing.

Post edited: we also verified what happened with port resonances, when throwing a 70Hz test tone G Two starts to “buzzz” quickly, 8020D also distorted but around 10 dB higher.

I think G series have different compression algorithms, supposed to be listened at lower volumes or perhaps they don’t trust the customer in protecting the unit.

 

[NTK]

They aren’t the same speakers, I had 8020 and F Two (which distorts a lot in low end) and actually 8030C and G Three (B version). Going to sell or return G Three if dealer accepts.

When I had 8020D and F Two we were surprised at home with the difference (even matching 8020 to G Two sensitivity), having seen the graphs at Genelec site. F Two is messy at mid range (in comparison, still a good desktop speaker), whereas 8020D is cristal clear there. Thought was a bad unit so returned it and bought another, but same thing.

These are the FR plots of the G Two and 8020D from Genelec. They are the same graph.

 

[Miguelón]

These are the FR plots of the G Two and 8020D from Genelec. They are the same graph.

I know, bought them for this reason… Nevertheless Genelec doesn’t care so much their website, for example G Three B has the same graph as G Three A and 8030B recorded years before their manufacture.

May consider probably G Two on the 8020C line, it has poorer directivity than its pro counterpart. Is not difficult at all to distinguish them, and if you want to pair them with 80xx probably they will compress at lower SPL.

 

[Miguelón]

These are the FR plots of the G Two and 8020D from Genelec. They are the same graph.

Excuse me by insisting on a possible unintentional error of Genelec, but both graphs looks EXACTLY the same. And recorded the same day, at which point two different units can match as well as that?

There’s even no 0.5 dB of difference between units, I don’t believe that is possible in a regular industrial manufacturing…

Guess is just a copy-paste of the same graphics.

 

[Mort]

Guess is just a copy-paste of the same graphics.

I don't come to that same conclusion. I'm not sure we know. Genelec has a very good and long reputation.

Home measurements are also suspect as they are fraught with error because of room modes, measurement limitations and user inconsistency.

 

[Miguelón]

I don't come to that same conclusion. I'm not sure we know. Genelec has a very good and long reputation.

Home measurements are also suspect as they are fraught with error because of room modes, measurement limitations and user inconsistency.

I am sure about seriousness of Genelec, but they had errors on their website: take a look on Genelec G Three B measurements and they are dated 2012 whereas the speaker was updated from G Three A on 2017.

In Japan website, Genelec offers different graphics (same as 8030C) to the same speaker, this time updated to 2017. But not same specs as 8030C, despite having exactly same graphics their accuracy of frequency response is slightly worse (+- 2.5 dB vs +- 2 dB) which is not possible if the measurements are totally the same. And ARE the same, very easy to take a screenshot and overlap.

Genelec is quite serious, I’m very fan of the brand but their website is not totally trustable. I will wrote an email to Genelec to correct and update their information.

The difference between G and 80xx series is noticeable when you listen to it, agree that room measurements are not trustable but you can make an stereo pair with two G Threes and two 8030C. Crossing them is absurd, as the OP guessed had same tonality.

Anyways, in ASR we don’t trust any brand measurements doesn’t matter the reputation, we only trust reliable measurements, and for instance only G Two was measured but not 8020C nor G Three.

POST EDITED: sorry, I missed the fact that the OP was you

Probably is a minor flaw to mix front G Twos and rear 8010 and central 8040 but if you can get a pair of 8020D second hand you will have a more coherent setup. Subjective, of course, but when I compared G and 80xx of 4 and 5 inches at home the difference is obvious (not in the sense some people argue a DAC has different tonality than other DAC, this is real. Probably the attenuator or the compression, or any other adaptation to home lineup is audible)

 

[Mort]

So far this setup is working well.

I got the LP distance wrong, it's farther than I expected, more like 15 ft and the room is bigger too.

I played with G Threes for LR mains but decided I still didn't need the extra power. They definitely go louder but I was fine with the smaller G Twos.

I'm still working on imaging, timing and channel balance.

 

[Miguelón]

So far this setup is working well.

I got the LP distance wrong, it's farther than I expected, more like 15 ft and the room is bigger too.

I played with G Threes for LR mains but decided I still didn't need the extra power. They definitely go louder but I was fine with the smaller G Twos.

I'm still working on imaging, timing and channel balance.

Bad decission, but taste is taste: not a matter of power, you have a volume regulator, is more the linearity of G Three or 8030C.

I had long time 8020 and G Two, was imposible to transform into good speakers. The G Three or 8030C are extraordinary well done, its 4 inch siblings are just medium to good.

Specially if you have increased listening distance you will prefer also the better directivity of 8030C/G Three

 

[Mort]

Bad decission

Sorry but I don't agree with your analysis. There's no audible difference.

 

[Miguelón]

Sorry but I don't agree with your analysis. There's no audible difference.

You have both speakers here well measured, one by Amir and the other I don’t remember. Differences are quite audible, specially on the mid range and in directionality (horizontal).

Apart from that, I have both at home, know very well with or without sub. I tried to convert 8020 in a home theater but in vane, is a desktop speaker. Not bad, some flaws because it size but is what it is.

Genelec good sound starts with 8030, if you can return yours you won’t regret it with time, but you will tired not so fast with the G Two-8020