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Mivera Audio DAC

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Mivera

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Mivera

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Bottom line is Amir has made himself out to be a major fool. I've shared all of this BS with several engineers in the industry and they're astonished by how out of touch he is with reality.
 

Thomas savage

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Well amir seems to think the same issues remain in your commercial build mike.. but yes clearly the commercial build and the diy build are separate.

Things then move onto your quoted measurements..

A good place to end the discussion, those intrested can reach their own conclusions. I don't want to repeat the whole thing. Folks are free to read from the beginning, nothings been edited and only insulting posts removed.

Edit, amir has more so Iv reopened it.

Better be new info though:p
 

amirm

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I only have 1! Just like everyone else. Why do they use them then? Look at Dallasjustice's Merging NADAC. Almost exact same filter before the SMPS. Same with the Mytek Brooklyn.
Well, let's look at the Nadac and compare it to your "commercial build." Shall we?

First the NADAC:

Nadac.jpg


Let's start with safety consideration. Right at input we see the proper colored wire (green+yellow) grounding wiring to the chassis. This is the most important safety consideration. Should hot wire come in contact with the chassis, there must be a stout ground connection as to trip the circuit breaker all the way back in the panel. This is so important that measurement and compliance with the spec is required in both UL and CE. You want to play fast and loose with our customer's lives, and buy yourself a heap of liability, leave this out with the mistaken idea that this has anything to do with audio fidelity.

Yes there is a mains filter. It is right at the inlet of IEC which means no extra mains wiring running around. That is there because this box has a pretty fancy digital subsystem on the right which generates a lot of noise of its own outside of what the DAC will do (board on the right).

Related to above, the box has both CE and FCC regulatory certification. That means they measured it and installed the right mains input filtering as needed to pass emissions standards. It is no hack stuffed in there thinking it will give you "blacker backgrounds, removing veils, etc."

The DAC and output buffer boards are together with proper layout putting the dac away from the analog output. The balanced connectors are all PCB mounted with no hand wiring. There are no cards on top of cards with connectors which can get loose, get dirty, etc.

Negatives are lack of retainers for the cabling. They are all dangling loose. Like to see these tied to the chassis.

Now let's compare this to Mike's "commercial build:"

Mike2.jpg


Right away we see the most important sin: no ground lug from the AC mains! The wires from the AC mains travel through the case and heaven knows where they get grounded if ever, and at how low of an impedance. On this basis alone, this build gets an "F" for design and safety.

As we know, there is no FCC or CE certification to catch any flaws in this design and as such, it is illegal to import into EU or US.

The enclosure is too small relative to Nadac. Notice how mains components are stuffed so near sensitive analog electronics. Ditto for switchmode power supply. See how far apart it is in Nadac versus here. The enclosure looks big due to lack of scale but in reality it is a mini-component box.

Then there is that useless soft-start whose functionality is in the switchmode power supply and it is only needed for linear supplies with large transformers. Insertion of that requires more mains wiring both leading to it and leaving it.

The switchmode power supply is put in backward. It's mains input needs to face the input IEC connector as to shorten that distance. Instead it is turned 180 degrees requiring again, for mains wiring to run everywhere.

Due to inexperience, the regulators are mounted in a line by the bottom heatsink. These don't dissipate much power. They should have their own small heatsinks allowing optimal layout which is NOT lining them up like soldiers and lengthening their path to their load. Bulk capacitor on the output is also misplaced as that needs to be on the load boards, not regulator.

I could go on but here is the net of it: any professional engineering looking at Mike's DAC would instantly say it screams hobbyist, kit assembly. That is what it is.

The NADAC DAC on the other hand, says "designed by professionals." Yes, it also screams "low volume" with handwiring that is there. But otherwise, you can't criticise it much by just looking at it. And you can be comfortable from safety point of view knowing that it has passed regulatory testing.

And we all know this conclusion is true. Mike is not an electrical engineer. Never worked as an electrical engineer. Doesn't understand any of these circuits beyond their superficial block diagram functionality. So he makes mistakes.

Now if he built this for himself, cool. But selling it to others and claiming it safe and CE compliant? Give me a break.

I will summarise: in my opinion his design is not safe or performant. Until he shows proper independent safety and performance data, that is what it is.
 

Thomas savage

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Well, let's look at the Nadac and compare it to your "commercial build." Shall we?

First the NADAC:

View attachment 8445

Let's start with safety consideration. Right at input we see the proper colored wire (green+yellow) grounding wiring to the chassis. This is the most important safety consideration. Should hot wire come in contact with the chassis, there must be a stout ground connection as to trip the circuit breaker all the way back in the panel. This is so important that measurement and compliance with the spec is required in both UL and CE. You want to play fast and loose with our customer's lives, and buy yourself a heap of liability, leave this out with the mistaken idea that this has anything to do with audio fidelity.

Yes there is a mains filter. It is right at the inlet of IEC which means no extra mains wiring running around. That is there because this box has a pretty fancy digital subsystem on the right which generates a lot of noise of its own outside of what the DAC will do (board on the right).

Related to above, the box has both CE and FCC regulatory certification. That means they measured it and installed the right mains input filtering as needed to pass emissions standards. It is no hack stuffed in there thinking it will give you "blacker backgrounds, removing veils, etc."

The DAC and output buffer boards are together with proper layout putting the dac away from the analog output. The balanced connectors are all PCB mounted with no hand wiring. There are no cards on top of cards with connectors which can get loose, get dirty, etc.

Negatives are lack of retainers for the cabling. They are all dangling loose. Like to see these tied to the chassis.

Now let's compare this to Mike's "commercial build:"

View attachment 8446

Right away we see the most important sin: no ground lug from the AC mains! The wires from the AC mains travel through the case and heaven knows where they get grounded if ever, and at how low of an impedance. On this basis alone, this build gets an "F" for design and safety.

As we know, there is no FCC or CE certification to catch any flaws in this design and as such, it is illegal to import into EU or US.

The enclosure is too small relative to Nadac. Notice how mains components are stuffed so near sensitive analog electronics. Ditto for switchmode power supply. See how far apart it is in Nadac versus here. The enclosure looks big due to lack of scale but in reality it is a mini-component box.

Then there is that useless soft-start whose functionality is in the switchmode power supply and it is only needed for linear supplies with large transformers. Insertion of that requires more mains wiring both leading to it and leaving it.

The switchmode power supply is put in backward. It's mains input needs to face the input IEC connector as to shorten that distance. Instead it is turned 180 degrees requiring again, for mains wiring to run everywhere.

Due to inexperience, the regulators are mounted in a line by the bottom heatsink. These don't dissipate much power. They should have their own small heatsinks allowing optimal layout which is NOT lining them up like soldiers and lengthening their path to their load. Bulk capacitor on the output is also misplaced as that needs to be on the load boards, not regulator.

I could go on but here is the net of it: any professional engineering looking at Mike's DAC would instantly say it screams hobbyist, kit assembly. That is what it is.

The NADAC DAC on the other hand, says "designed by professionals." Yes, it also screams "low volume" with handwiring that is there. But otherwise, you can't criticise it much by just looking at it. And you can be comfortable from safety point of view knowing that it has passed regulatory testing.

And we all know this conclusion is true. Mike is not an electrical engineer. Never worked as an electrical engineer. Doesn't understand any of these circuits beyond their superficial block diagram functionality. So he makes mistakes.

Now if he built this for himself, cool. But selling it to others and claiming it safe and CE compliant? Give me a break.

I will summarise: in my opinion his design is not safe or performant. Until he shows proper independent safety and performance data, that is what it is.
Mike says that's a early prototype, this is his commercial build.
IMG_1132.JPG


Some of the issues you raise still remain but I want to be fair so let's recognise this is his commercial build and the one you just referenced is a early prototype.
 

Mivera

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Well amir seems to think the same issues remain in your commercial build mike.. but yes clearly the commercial build and the diy build are separate.

Amir thinks a lot of things. Linear supplies are the best when both of his examples of SOTA DAC's both switched to switch mode power supplies 5 years ago. EMI filters are redundant and dangerous when every DAC on the market using SMPS's are using them just the same as me.
 

amirm

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Mike says that's a early prototype, this is his commercial build.
View attachment 8447

Some of the issues you raise still remain but I want to be fair so let's recognise this is his commercial build and the one you just referenced is a early prototype.
NO, that is what steve built. The picture I used is the one that he says is a commercial build. Of course, if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you :). With his low ethics, we have no idea if his commercial builds are that way.

But again, the picture I used is for what he says to be his "commercial build."
 

Mivera

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Mike says that's a early prototype, this is his commercial build.
View attachment 8447

Some of the issues you raise still remain but I want to be fair so let's recognise this is his commercial build and the one you just referenced is a early prototype.

When the motive is to mislead, you need to use dirty tactics.

Anyways all Purestream owners have seen both of these threads and think Amir is a joke. My OEM's don't give a shit about this limited run, hand built unit. They will be mass producing my designs in their own independent facility.

So Amir, nobody's listening to your bs and nobody cares.
 

Mivera

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NO, that is what steve built. The picture I used is the one that he says is a commercial build. Of course, if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you :). With his low ethics, we have no idea if his commercial builds are that way.

But again, the picture I used is for what he says to be his "commercial build."

Keep digging yourself deeper. You better not start editing my posts again. I clearly state what the facts are and screenshot each post after posting. Because of your history to edit my posts, replace with your own words, and block me out of the thread.
 

amirm

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Amir thinks a lot of things. Linear supplies are the best when both of his examples of SOTA DAC's both switched to switch mode power supplies 5 years ago. EMI filters are redundant and dangerous when every DAC on the market using SMPS's are using them just the same as me.
I just explained that but here is more:

You built a kit out of parts. You bought a commercial switchmode power supply with certification you were proud of. As a result, you did not stick the extra EMI filter for that. You put it in there under mistaken audiophile believes that it further reduces audible noise, removes ground loops, eliminates mains leakage, etc. That is all wrong.

The professional companies use them because they put them through FCC/CE certification, measure the noise level and then select the right filter to get past certification. They are not doing it because they think it makes the DAC sound good. And duplicate functionality in the DAC.
 

amirm

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My OEM's don't give a shit about this limited run, hand built unit. They will be mass producing my designs in their own independent facility.
So they acknowledge your limited build is below their standards for safety and performance?
 

Mivera

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Have not edited your post whatsoever. What did you say that you think got changed?

No I'm taking about other threads in the past. Long ago.
 

amirm

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No I'm taking about other threads in the past. Long ago.
I don't know about that but good to have another example of your low ethics, implying your posts here were being modified.

You have anything technical to add other than unfounded, off-topic innuendo?
 

Mivera

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So they acknowledge your limited build is below their standards for safety and performance?

No they just have their own production facility's. The Purestream was a limited run hand built DAC designed to test the concept. Only reason I built it was because my clients kept asking which DAC to use with their Superstreams. So I decided to build a limited run of 25 sets.

That's it. Everyone is thrilled with the unit.
 

Thomas savage

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NO, that is what steve built. The picture I used is the one that he says is a commercial build. Of course, if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you :). With his low ethics, we have no idea if his commercial builds are that way.

But again, the picture I used is for what he says to be his "commercial build."
No it's not, this is what Steve built .
IMG_1133.JPG


Then according to mike changed it to this and indeed this is what Steve himself posted
IMG_1129.JPG
 

Mivera

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Mivera

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I just explained that but here is more:

You built a kit out of parts. You bought a commercial switchmode power supply with certification you were proud of. As a result, you did not stick the extra EMI filter for that. You put it in there under mistaken audiophile believes that it further reduces audible noise, removes ground loops, eliminates mains leakage, etc. That is all wrong.

The professional companies use them because they put them through FCC/CE certification, measure the noise level and then select the right filter to get past certification. They are not doing it because they think it makes the DAC sound good. And duplicate functionality in the DAC.

No once again 80% of audio gear on the market doesn't even have any certifications.
 

Thomas savage

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This is the picture I get when I go to buy a purestream from mikes online shop..,
IMG_1132.JPG


Amir , you may feel issues still exists here, that's fine but let's not promote a diy build or a prototype as mikes commercial build.

There's no need as your main points seem to still be relevant on the recognised commercial build ( recognised by mike himself).
 
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