I remember when Minolta introduced their APS SLRs and moved the view finder to the upper side of the body and eliminating the centre prism, taking advantage of possibilities offered by the APS dimensional changes. It never seemed to catch on for SLRs and APS happened at the end of film, but now manufacturers offer mirrorless cameras in both SLR styles and for want of a better term, range finder styles. Do people have a preference one way or the other?
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Mirrorless design
- Thread starter JJB70
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Destination: Moon
Senior Member
I've used both and didn't really have a preference. Been using SLR style cameras since I first picked up my dad's Bessler Unirex. I gravitated to the Fuji EX1 when it was released and since had the XT 1&2 and XT20....
I liked the EX due to its handling and very compact size.
If your going with long heavy lenses, I'd say the SLR style is more balanced due to eye \ face placement and deeper grips usually found on this style camera
The last Fuji ex was the EX3 I think, it's 1 or 2 gens behind the XT4 but still a very serious compact for most shooting. Where it lags is focus speed
I liked the EX due to its handling and very compact size.
If your going with long heavy lenses, I'd say the SLR style is more balanced due to eye \ face placement and deeper grips usually found on this style camera
The last Fuji ex was the EX3 I think, it's 1 or 2 gens behind the XT4 but still a very serious compact for most shooting. Where it lags is focus speed
JaccoW
Senior Member
I often bring mine on hikes and bicycle tours so a lighter weight and compactness are my primary concerns. I also prefer the look of the rangefinder formfactor over the classic DSLR one. Especially with digital viewfinders there is not much of a technical reason to keep it in the central position on top of the camera.
My first camera was a compact from the film era that used a rangefinder and my current camera is an old Sony Nex-5 APS-C mirrorless.
It still works really well but I plan to buy the Sony A7C or its successor in a year or two. The much faster autofocus and better dynamic range are definite advantages that matter to me.
Unless Sony comes out with an actually new APS-C model that can be recharged with an USB-C cable.
My first camera was a compact from the film era that used a rangefinder and my current camera is an old Sony Nex-5 APS-C mirrorless.
It still works really well but I plan to buy the Sony A7C or its successor in a year or two. The much faster autofocus and better dynamic range are definite advantages that matter to me.
Unless Sony comes out with an actually new APS-C model that can be recharged with an USB-C cable.
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I much prefer mirrorless (weight, bulk), but where it gets stupid is when I tell you I only own DSLRs.
I don't feel like upgrading the collection of lenses I have to their lighter, newer versions. I suffered from a severe case of upgradeitis from 2000 to 2010, not so anymore. I guess that's what becoming old is about...
I am fully aware sensors have improved tremendously, as I use them for other purposes, but that's not worth the upgrade, at least for me. What may be worth upgrading are the "AI driven" autofocus and image stabilisation. I'll get there when my current cameras fail I guess.
I don't feel like upgrading the collection of lenses I have to their lighter, newer versions. I suffered from a severe case of upgradeitis from 2000 to 2010, not so anymore. I guess that's what becoming old is about...
I am fully aware sensors have improved tremendously, as I use them for other purposes, but that's not worth the upgrade, at least for me. What may be worth upgrading are the "AI driven" autofocus and image stabilisation. I'll get there when my current cameras fail I guess.
In practice, no particular preference. My first cameras had viewfinders on the left hand side, but when I started using an SLR, after Some initial discomfort of squashing my nose against the camera back, I quickly got used to it.
Aesthetically, I prefer the clear, uncluttered top plate of a rangefinder or rangefinder-style camera.
Aesthetically, I prefer the clear, uncluttered top plate of a rangefinder or rangefinder-style camera.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #8
I ended up voting with my feet, as I understand it the Sony A7c and A7iii are basically the same camera in different bodies although I was told the A7c has a more advanced AF system and the A7iii has a bigger EVF image. Prices are pretty similar, I think the A7iii is more expensive but you can find good discounts now. I went for the rangefinder style A7c largely because I preferred the way it feels and handles, which surprised me somewhat as if you'd asked me before trying them both I'm pretty sure I'd have chosen the SLR style A7iii. Purely personal preference.
I strongly prefer "rangefinder"-style designs, but this is something you really should try for yourself, rather than rely on Internet feedback, because it's going to be a very personal preference for you.
One thing I really do appreciate are recent rangefinder-style camera designs like the Fuji X-E3 and X-E4 where they've omitted any kind of circular D-pad or control pad. I love, love, love this choice ergonomically. Finally a huge space to rest your thumb, like the old analog cameras I used to shoot with.
One thing I really do appreciate are recent rangefinder-style camera designs like the Fuji X-E3 and X-E4 where they've omitted any kind of circular D-pad or control pad. I love, love, love this choice ergonomically. Finally a huge space to rest your thumb, like the old analog cameras I used to shoot with.
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If I didn't already have a collection of SLR lenses from pre-mirrorless days, I would go mirrorless today. My little Sony RX100 takes fantastic photos, enough so that I would be going to the Sony A7 series if I were starting over today.
With digital photography, I don't see a downside to mirrorless.
With digital photography, I don't see a downside to mirrorless.
Destination: Moon
Senior Member
Didn't realize that Fuji released the XE 4. Looks like it's got the same AF as the XT4
Destination: Moon
Senior Member
The RX100 is an amazing camera. I have an older one with a 28-100 lens. In good light it'll make images that will print at 16x20 without issues. It's my ski and hike camera unless I'm out with a group that wants action pics
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Well, suppose they came out with a phone with a camera having huge resolution and somehow could use that to process even for telephoto use and night time low noise use, and it always made the optimum decisions automatically. Would photography enthusiasts enjoy it like a manually adjustable SLR type? While not quite there it is where things are headed. My current phone can even do RAW photos. Or even if a stand alone camera used this tech for a relatively cheap, small simple camera would someone like it the way they do SLR types or even mirrorless that mimic that kind of control and interface.
Now sure maybe some artistic decisions are not the "perfect image". But once you have RAW and a few choices you can re-create that from such cameras.
Even now, though larger cameras and the optics of lenses will always give a little edge vs some smaller camera with DSP, the places where this can be exploited is hemmed in to a very narrow range of uses vs the latest phone cameras with multiple cameras of high pixel count that do some nifty DSP. It is why for 2 years I've been wanting a mirrorless camera to replace my aged DSLR, but the phone so rarely falls short such a purchase is more and more an expensive vanity purchase with only marginal real benefit. One thing to me about the lousy UI of phone cameras was eliminated when phones can pull the shutter on voice command. That has made using my phone camera terrific.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #15
It's a fair point. I have just used my phone camera for several years and am very happy with image quality. There has been serious R&D to make camera phones genuinely good as cameras in their own right, and it shows. I have just returned to a dedicated camera as I am taking a lot more photographs and wanted to return to it as a hobby. The biggest issue I have with phone cameras is absence of a viewfinder. Particularly here in Singapore where it is often very bright I find it quite normal to end up just pointing and hoping it is right as I can't view the screen. And I still prefer dials and buttons. But I think a camera probably is an indulgence these days. For most people most of the time a phone camera is all that is needed. And a camera you can take everywhere and which is always to hand has massive advantages of its own.
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I have the very first version of this camera, and it is still great. If I remember correctly, I chose it because of the then-oversized sensor for a camera this size. It is great beyond just the sensor and has exceeded my expectations in every way. You can put it on automatic and give it someone who has never used a good camera, and they will take great pictures.
Now they are up to version VII, and the price has doubled over the years. They have made improvements that may justify some of the price increase, but I think they also realized what a great camera they have.
I think you are right. But I can still see deficiencies when I resize to a bigger image compared to a standalone camera. I think there will always be a difference in capability just due to physics, but having a separate camera is less of a need for people who just want to point and shoot.
Does anyone know what the sales trends for high end cameras is these days? It seems like the market is still upgrading every year; I might even say it appears to be thriving? It could be that digital photography - even in phones - has created new demand and interest in the hobby, just like the trends in audio.
I still think my RX100 is easier to use than a phone and it definitely takes better pictures. But maybe that is just the dinosaur in me not wanting to give up.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #18
I think cameras are probably like many things. Smartphones are ideal for most of the people most of the time and deliver excellent results, but there is still a pleasure in interacting with technology, tactile feel and handling and such like even if a smartphone is entirely adequate.
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I like rangefinder form factor, but ultimately I buy based on whether I think the camera will suit my needs.
As of iPhone 11, I respect what mobile devices can do as cameras, but I'm also well aware of their limitations, such as a dearth of normal to telephoto lenses.
As of iPhone 11, I respect what mobile devices can do as cameras, but I'm also well aware of their limitations, such as a dearth of normal to telephoto lenses.
Destination: Moon
Senior Member
The only real reason to use a large sensor camera is if you wish to print at larger sizes for framing. If your only going to display images digitally, there really isn't much need anymore for anything more than a camera phone. Unless it's to future proof or some kind of specialized imaging like sports, wildlife or astro
