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Mining bitcoin uses more energy than Denmark

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" Extracting a dollar’s worth of cryptocurrency such as bitcoin from the deep Web consumes three times more energy than digging up a dollar’s worth of gold, researchers said Monday.

There are now hundreds of virtual currencies and an unknown number of server farms around the world running around the clock to unearth them, more than half of them in China, according to a recent report from the University of Cambridge.

Mining virtual currencies with a real-world value, in other words, carries a hidden environmental cost that is rarely measured or taken into account.

“We now have an entirely new industry that is consuming more energy per year than many countries,” said Max Krause, a researcher at the Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education and lead author of a study in the journal Nature Sustainability.

In 2018, bitcoin is on track to consume more energy than Denmark,” he told AFP. "

https://www.nst.com.my/world/2018/11/428708/mining-bitcoin-uses-more-energy-denmark-study
 

Grave

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Didn't all these cryptocurrencies crash recently?

I briefly tried mining with my expensive GPU but it produced an insignificant amount of money.
 

JJB70

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I went to an ATM to get some bit coins after having been told crypto currencies were quite the thing for the dashing young chap about town but couldn't find the right button so gave up.
 

Snarfie

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A real world value??? The money that we own (or paying the Electric cost of mining crypto currencies) is loosing it value at warpspeed by so cald quantitve easing (fiat money printing in the triljons FED ECB etc) atleast bitcoin is limited to 21 Million bitcoins. The energie that is used to mine them is seen as the intrinsic value. You can't say that from quantitive easing Which is an Ordinary rip off of your money By your national bank (read goverment) introducing negative interest rates there is the real problem. Thats one of the reasons crypto currencies are mined because there is eventualy no trust In fiat money. Saifedean wrote recently an interesting book about fiat money bitcoins the cost of mining an put it in perspective cald The Bitcoin Standard
 
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andreasmaaan

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Didn't all these cryptocurrencies crash recently?

I briefly tried mining with my expensive GPU but it produced an insignificant amount of money.

There was a correction (if you could call it that) - the values approximately halved on average overnight but have remained stable since.

No single computer has near enough power to mine a bitcoin these days....
 

captain paranoia

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A colleague of mine got into it in the early days, and I was rather bemused by it, as it seemed to be a completely pointless waste of energy, and the idea appalled me.

He filled his house with servers, and had problems with waste heat.

But he mined rather a lot of bitcoin. I suspect, if he hung on to them, he probably made a lot of money.
 

restorer-john

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So we recently got a new $50 note in Australia and I was trying to read the super fine hidden printing on it. Even under magnification I couldn't really read it so I put it on my scanner so I could zoom in on it.

The scanner refused to scan it! It knows its a banknote! So that led me down a hole of researching Omron Rings and counterfeit deterrence systems that have put digital watermarks in currencies all over the world. (digimarc).

So it's even getting harder to print your own money now. :) kidding.

PS. the ironic thing is, windows10 fax and scan had no problem scanning it!
 

Wombat

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So we recently got a new $50 note in Australia and I was trying to read the super fine hidden printing on it. Even under magnification I couldn't really read it so I put it on my scanner so I could zoom in on it.

The scanner refused to scan it! It knows its a banknote! So that led me down a hole of researching Omron Rings and counterfeit deterrence systems that have put digital watermarks in currencies all over the world. (digimarc).

So it's even getting harder to print your own money now. :) kidding.

PS. the ironic thing is, windows10 fax and scan had no problem scanning it!


Oops. I thought only Bill Gates had the password for that app. :rolleyes: Or, considering the amount of gear Amir buys ................................ ? o_O
 

Cosmik

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Heard an interview with Craig Wright, one of the people behind the development of bitcoin recently. He set up a system for mining them in his house; they were selling them in 2010 at 0.003 cents per bitcoin.

The interviewer asked him when he first knew he was wealthy and he said "Probably when I reached my first billion US..."
 

Blumlein 88

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I know a bit of necro-posting, but wow 2% for this silly bitcoin. Estimated that 2% of US electrical consumption is for bitcoin. I assume from the article that doesn't include the other crypto coins. They have now allowed ETF's for crypto while I was hoping they would make them illegal.
 

droid2000

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I know a bit of necro-posting, but wow 2% for this silly bitcoin. Estimated that 2% of US electrical consumption is for bitcoin. I assume from the article that doesn't include the other crypto coins. They have now allowed ETF's for crypto while I was hoping they would make them illegal.
Bitcoin is far from silly. It's the first money with rules and transparency. You'd think ASR members would be into money with clear rules and the ability to be measured. If you don't like it's energy usage, then outbid the miners.
 

Blumlein 88

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Bitcoin is far from silly. It's the first money with rules and transparency. You'd think ASR members would be into money with clear rules and the ability to be measured. If you don't like it's energy usage, then outbid the miners.
So what advantage is there for bitcoin vs ethereum? Ethereum changed how it works and reduced energy consumption for the currency to .01% of what it previously used. I see little benefit to either, but if you find benefit then it would be better to use less energy.
 

Chromatischism

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I know a bit of necro-posting, but wow 2% for this silly bitcoin. Estimated that 2% of US electrical consumption is for bitcoin. I assume from the article that doesn't include the other crypto coins. They have now allowed ETF's for crypto while I was hoping they would make them illegal.
BTC is the only crypto asset with any significant mining activity, so you can ignore any others that use proof of work since they don't amount to much. Especially since ETH proof of work has ended.

But consider that a lot of the energy used for these operations is generated specifically for the operation, so it's not like it's taking 2% of the United States' energy away from the grid.
 

droid2000

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So what advantage is there for bitcoin vs ethereum? Ethereum changed how it works and reduced energy consumption for the currency to .01% of what it previously used. I see little benefit to either, but if you find benefit then it would be better to use less energy.
You are correct that Ethereum reduced it's energy usage when it switched to proof of stake. But that switch eliminated one of the main properties that makes bitcoin valuable. Eth is now no different than fiat, where whoever owns the most makes the rules. Bitcoin remains on proof of work. Energy secures the bitcoin network, not wealth. Bitcoin is tied to the real world through it's mining, and that requires energy. Wealth, political connections, influence of any kind is of no use.
 

Chromatischism

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So what advantage is there for bitcoin vs ethereum? Ethereum changed how it works and reduced energy consumption for the currency to .01% of what it previously used. I see little benefit to either, but if you find benefit then it would be better to use less energy.
It's probably easier to find those answers on the internet than to have someone type them out here.

But very quickly, on ETH: you might have seen very little benefit to early credit card processing systems, like Visa, or app platforms, like iOS. But look at them now.

On BTC: think of how you buy a Gold ETF. You own a small piece but don't have to take delivery of a shipment of gold. BTC is even better because you do get to hold the asset, only it doesn't take up space in your attic, isn't controlled by any single entity, and can be broken down into tiny slivers and spent and exchanged with others, not just the exchange/broker you got it from.
 

droid2000

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I'l just add one more thing about bitcoins supposed excessive energy usage. Just like Greta doesn't ever go to China, which is the largest consumer of coal on the planet BY FAR dwarfing everyone other country, and supposedly represents everything she hates, bitcoin energy antagonists never mention the other uses of energy that consumes more than bitcoin. When was the last time you heard of an organized campaign against the energy usage of gaming, or Christmas tree lights, or clothes dryers?
 

Chromatischism

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Greta is right about a lot of things, but I wouldn't be quick to equate Bitcoin with coal. I follow companies like Cleanspark. There are others using as many renewables as they can to power their operations. The latest stats I've seen is that BTC miners as a whole are somewhere between 50-60% renewable at this point. And in some cases, they are finding ways to use the heat from the computers for secondary purposes, even dual-use businesses where the heat from one goes into the other. Heating water for fish farming is one example, saving the energy it would have required from the grid.
 

droid2000

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Greta is right about a lot of things, but I wouldn't be quick to equate Bitcoin with coal. I follow companies like Cleanspark. There are others using as many renewables as they can to power their operations. The latest stats I've seen is that BTC miners as a whole are somewhere between 50-60% renewable at this point. And in some cases, they are finding ways to use the heat from the computers for secondary purposes, even dual-use businesses where the heat from one goes into the other.
I've seen two novel uses of bitcoin mining the last few years that have blown my mind.

1) There are many populated places around the world that don't have electricity, but *could* have electricity because they are near stranded energy sources like rivers. But the costs to build a dam and power station are too large for the population to afford. But bitcoin miners are coming in and changing the equation. They absorb the cheap excess energy that isn't need by the village. So it's practical to build a power supply where before it couldn't be justified.

2) Bitcoin allows for the expansion of electrical grids so that they can provide higher demand. For example, Texas has a very large bitcoin miner (the worlds largest in fact) that sucks up all excess energy off the grid. When the grid needs more power when the sun goes down or the wind stops blowing, they instantly shut down miners to allow for more energy to other customers. The bitcoin miners have built in a robustness to the electrical grid.
 
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