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Well after carefully matching the output levels between the Cambridge Audio cnx v2 and WiiM Ultra I cannot hear any difference so far in about 1 hour of testing.
The WiiM room correction application set up 10 peq filters and adjusted my sub timing by 6ms to match mains. I can see the filters and adjust or deactivate any of them individually. I have to admit this is a very impressive UI.
As far as I can tell WiiM ultra fixes the whole room, mains and sub, and uses 10 peq filters to do this. There is an option to switch to graphic eq as well.i
No comment yet on how well it does this. That will take time.
Sorry it can eq low frequencies but its only specific to left/right channel. It's limited where as with miniDSP you can eq each driver specifically whether its left speaker, right speaker, subwoofer one, subwoofer two, etc. Just way more control. I misspoke in that it can only do speakers. What I meant was miniDSP can eq each subwoofer independently from speakers and independetly from each other. The other issue though is delay between sub and speakers. WiiM only allows 1ms step changes for delay. Where as miniDSP allows 0.01ms step changes.
Not sure one can reliably hear the difference between 1 ms and 0.01 ms delay on a subwoofer in most cases. For a simple 2.1 setup, I’m perfectly happy with WiiM Ultra using just crossover and basic EQ.
I have run into issues when combining RoomFit with downstream processing. For example, in my father-in-law’s system (WiiM Pro Plus → miniDSP 2x4HD handling crossover and sub integration), applying RoomFit upstream doesn’t behave as intended.
My assumption is that RoomFit optimizes based on the measured system response, but when additional crossover/phase/delay changes are applied downstream, the final acoustic result no longer matches what RoomFit corrected for.
If we are talking about group delay audibility thresholds, the answer is a flat "NO". The thresholds, determined in studies with headphones and test signals, is at least one period of the frequency in question. So if it's 50Hz, the period T is 1/50 = 20ms.
But a 1ms delay of the subwoofer relative to the mains can also introduce phase shift. If it's 100Hz, the period T is 10ms, so it will create a phase shift of (360 * 1/10) = 36 degrees. Not quite enough to convert a peak into a dip (you need 5ms at 100Hz for a 180deg phase rotation), but enough to change the frequency response slightly. That may be audible.
Sound travels about 1 foot (0.343m) in 1ms. So if you shift your head by 1 foot while listening, you can create that phase shift / change in relative delay all on your own, depending on the geometry of the speakers, subs, and listener.
So the answer whether there is an advantage to DSP correction finer than 1ms: yes there is, but it's a small one and arguably almost inaudible for practical purposes. So you are mostly correct.
in my father-in-law’s system (WiiM Pro Plus → miniDSP 2x4HD handling crossover and sub integration), applying RoomFit upstream doesn’t behave as intended.
Well I'm not "counting on" RoomFit, or any specific DRC implementation, so if it does not test out as working well in a given setup will try others.
> My assumption is that RoomFit optimizes based on the measured system response
I'm pretty sure that has to be correct, what else could it be based on?
> when additional crossover/phase/delay changes are applied downstream, the final acoustic result no longer matches what RoomFit corrected for.
It is possible that multiple DSPs in the chain can have unforeseen interactions.
I haven't yet worked out "linear phase" vs "minimum phase" vs hybrid approaches, but I bet those distinctions are relevant.
OCA's GSonic Reference approach - only applying the DRC "last" after all the speaker EQ / Crossovers phase / timing alignment have been resolved - makes a lot of sense to me.
But I'm challenged thinking about the need for user ad-hoc tone / EQ controls and endemic Loudness Compensation (auto varying with the volume control) to then act as yet another overlay, likely interfering with the DRC?
Well I'm not "counting on" RoomFit, or any specific DRC implementation, so if it does not test out as working well in a given setup will try others.
> My assumption is that RoomFit optimizes based on the measured system response
I'm pretty sure that has to be correct, what else could it be based on?
> when additional crossover/phase/delay changes are applied downstream, the final acoustic result no longer matches what RoomFit corrected for.
It is possible that multiple DSPs in the chain can have unforeseen interactions.
I haven't yet worked out "linear phase" vs "minimum phase" vs hybrid approaches, but I bet those distinctions are relevant.
OCA's GSonic Reference approach - only applying the DRC "last" after all the speaker EQ / Crossovers phase / timing alignment have been resolved - makes a lot of sense to me.
But I'm challenged thinking about the need for user ad-hoc tone / EQ controls and endemic Loudness Compensation (auto varying with the volume control) to then act as yet another overlay, likely interfering with the DRC?
I imagine using WiiM PEQ (not RoomFit) after DRC for small adjustments should not significantly undo the correction. DRC is your baseline correction and WiiM PEQ as a light voicing layer on top. Establish your baseline phase + magnitude (system correction) and than use WiiM PEQ for minor tweaks. It also is user-friendly since WiiM PEQ is so easy to adjust/save/and switch between different voicings.
Do you think the same way about active Loudness compensation tied to the user volume control?
Since I want to calibrate the Wiim voltage-version of SPL limiting to (somewhat) protect my speakers from "teen party mode" I'm thinking that volume control should be passive attenuation-only downstream.
But then, I guess an active one could go on the upstream side, just need to calibrate that voltage limit to its max impact.
Add in gain matching to maximise SNR, headroom for multiple DSP nodes just before amplification and my head is hurting...
Using one of those downstream DSP to do the SPL limiting might be better, just on the speaker pairs I care about...
Do you think the same way about active Loudness compensation tied to the user volume control?
Since I want to calibrate the Wiim voltage-version of SPL limiting to (somewhat) protect my speakers from "teen party mode" I'm thinking that volume control should be passive attenuation-only downstream.
But then, I guess an active one could go on the upstream side, just need to calibrate that voltage limit to its max impact.
Add in gain matching to maximise SNR, headroom for multiple DSP nodes just before amplification and my head is hurting...
Using one of those downstream DSP to do the SPL limiting might be better, just on the speaker pairs I care about...
or example, in my father-in-law’s system (WiiM Pro Plus → miniDSP 2x4HD handling crossover and sub integration), applying RoomFit upstream doesn’t behave as intended.
My assumption is that RoomFit optimizes based on the measured system response, but when additional crossover/phase/delay changes are applied downstream, the final acoustic result no longer matches what RoomFit corrected for.
This might be the case when running several subs in mono configuration downstream, as the WiiM room fit in this configuration - as far as I understand - optimizes the input channels (left/right) and not each individual output channel (main left/main right/mono sub 1/mono sub2/...).
For the same reason, MSO does not propose using Dirac with a MiniDSP SHD and two mono subwoofers.
Do you think the same way about active Loudness compensation tied to the user volume control?
Since I want to calibrate the Wiim voltage-version of SPL limiting to (somewhat) protect my speakers from "teen party mode" I'm thinking that volume control should be passive attenuation-only downstream.
But then, I guess an active one could go on the upstream side, just need to calibrate that voltage limit to its max impact.
Add in gain matching to maximise SNR, headroom for multiple DSP nodes just before amplification and my head is hurting...
Using one of those downstream DSP to do the SPL limiting might be better, just on the speaker pairs I care about...
This is a small excursion into volume and EQ headroom on the WiiM Mini (and by extension, likely other WiiM products). WiiM Mini Firmware: 4.6.805929 WiiM Home Version: 3.5.1 For all tests, I used a -1dBFS Measurement Sweep, exported from REW and played back directly via the WiiM Home App...
Because the Wiim doesn't have a lock to keep the partying teens from disabling the limiter? Although if they can reach the interconnects they can bypass the external unit...
Because the Wiim doesn't have a lock to keep the partying teens from disabling the limiter? Although if they can reach the interconnects they can bypass the external unit...
Will the partying teens really be motivated enough to:
1. Figure out it's the WiiM which is limiting their fun (how?)
2. Find the WiiM Home App in the App store and install it
3. Connect to the WiiM Mini
4. Find the settings menu -> Aux out level and change it
Will the partying teens really be motivated enough to:
1. Figure out it's the WiiM which is limiting their fun (how?)
2. Find the WiiM Home App in the App store and install it
3. Connect to the WiiM Mini
4. Find the settings menu -> Aux out level and change it
It depends on the partying teens. If they're remotely technical I wouldn't rule out either that or finding some other workaround like connecting their own non-limited source in its place.
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