Did you actually read the review?
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miniDSP vs active analog crossover
- Thread starter rjp
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #42
Yes, why are you asking me this. Did you read the review?
I assume you are talking about the review of the WiiM Ultra. If something else please use your words.
Keith_W
Master Contributor
You can forget about SINAD and all those other measurements. Unless the equipment is truly dreadful, which the MiniDSP isn't, it will be effectively transparent. As in, so transparent that you can loop 10 ADC-DAC cycles and still not hear a damned thing. What matters is the quality of the DSP, and THAT depends on the user. I have said over and over that the no. 1 reason for bad sounding DSP is user error. The DSP swamps any miniscule differences in the quality of the DAC's. Being able to take good measurements and make good decisions about DSP is what you should be worried about. All this worry about whether something inaudible is important is misplaced priorities.
- Thread Starter
- #46
That reminds me of the old saying. Tone controls make things worse, but to really screw things up requires an equalizer!
I suppose it’s even more true with dsp. Not just user error though. Also the quality of the filter implementations. Hopefully most manufacturers get the math right.
I suppose it’s even more true with dsp. Not just user error though. Also the quality of the filter implementations. Hopefully most manufacturers get the math right.
It is not that bad.
Use simple (IIR) PEQ to pull down your room modes below 200-300Hz, don't try to fill gaps and don't equalize to a "target curve" above 200-300Hz and everything will sound fine.
Then, use bass and treble control to adjust the sound to taste. The setting may vary from album to album.
All you need to do is run a low to mid level sine sweep. Just watch the excursion and if bass reflex be very careful below box tuning. The peaks are going to be clearly audible you are just going to have to determine the right Q setting for the bandwidth of the filter and notch depth. If it has an auto do a before and an after to see how effective it is of just switch it out if that's an option.
Rob
- Thread Starter
- #51
Btw, my dbx 223 active crossover arrived today and I just tried it out. I'll say this, it has a huge impact on the sound. Like nothing I've heard in my living room before.
And it's a lot of fun to play with. It really is remarkable how different the sound is compared to just using the built in LPF in my sub and running the mains full bandwidth.
Not saying it's better necessarily, but it is definitely different and worth it to me just to hear what two perfectly matched 24dB/octave HP/LP filters can do for the overall blend. I think the best part is being able to just rotate a knob and immediately here the effect of the cutoff frequency change.
One thing that really surprised me so far is how good it sounds with the cutoff up high around 120-140 Hz. I never expected this. My main speakers (Dynaudio Special 40) are good down to 41Hz supposedly, and ported at 50. I like the natural bass of the Special 40s, so not sure I want to cross them over so high, but for now it's fun to play with.
I also have the WiiM Ultra now, but haven't had time to set that up yet. Looking forward to comparing the DSP bass management to the analog option.
And it's a lot of fun to play with. It really is remarkable how different the sound is compared to just using the built in LPF in my sub and running the mains full bandwidth.
Not saying it's better necessarily, but it is definitely different and worth it to me just to hear what two perfectly matched 24dB/octave HP/LP filters can do for the overall blend. I think the best part is being able to just rotate a knob and immediately here the effect of the cutoff frequency change.
One thing that really surprised me so far is how good it sounds with the cutoff up high around 120-140 Hz. I never expected this. My main speakers (Dynaudio Special 40) are good down to 41Hz supposedly, and ported at 50. I like the natural bass of the Special 40s, so not sure I want to cross them over so high, but for now it's fun to play with.
I also have the WiiM Ultra now, but haven't had time to set that up yet. Looking forward to comparing the DSP bass management to the analog option.
I essentially agree with you.
Let me suggest another good example; my PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio setup having also TV I/O and vinyl-TT input; for the details of the latest configuration, please refer to #931, #1,009, #1,022 on my project thread.
Regarding the x-over, it is also worth to measure the SPL responses of both subs and mains separately, with x-over engaged, and to check in REW EQ window that the acoustic x-over slopes match the set x-over slopes. You can simply check by activating the correct target in the REW EQ window.
What matters is the final acoustic response measured, not the x-over set (e.g. I have to use different x-over frequencies for low and high pass to get correct acoustic slopes on my subwoofers and perfect summation with my mains).
terryforsythe
Major Contributor
And don't forget about phase alignment. Having fully adjustable phase (NOT just a 0 or 180 degree switch) can make a significant improvement in some systems. Modern subwoofers, at least the well engineered ones, typically have fully adjustable phase, as do many DSP crossovers (all of the ones I have used). Either one is fine, but it may be a little more convenient to use the one in the crossover.
Ideally, you should adjust both, delay and phase (via allpass filters). Adjusting only delay and not phase can be a very good compromise, however (my RME UFX II which I am using as x-over and DSP, e.g., has no allpass filters for phase adjustment).
- Thread Starter
- #57
In my case there is only one crossover frequency so I won't be able to do this. I plan to look at the high, low, and combined spectrums on REW eventually.
- Thread Starter
- #58
The crossover has only 0/180 on each of the 4 outputs, but my sub has fully adjustable -180 through 180 phase. So far, -180 sounds strongest in a quick listen.
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I'm guessing that it is all ownership bias. I can't really tell a difference ( at least nothing that I've noticed) between the WiiM and several AVRs, DACs I own.
If I was to do a new unit where I needed an amp Included I'd move up to a Lyngdorf just for their simple and great room correction and additional DSP features. The WiiM would do well too, just would want something new to me.
No bias here since I have WiiM products (Pro, Pro Plus, Ultra) and miniDSP Flex HTx. miniDSP is a tad better because of better delay and PEQ control. WiiM can only EQ your speakers but is way more convenient and simpler to use. DAC differences are irrelevant compared to implementation
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