miniDSP vs active analog crossover

[terryforsythe]

Lyrion Streamer on rpi , with camilladsp and sound interface with 4 , 6, 8 or more outputs , for crossover and room correction. Best than wiim, but diy

I have Lyrion running on my NAS. I like it for my streaming from my music library, but not for streaming from Tidal. In my setup I run a WiiM Ultra, outputing digital over USB to my Raspberry Pi running CamillaDSP. I am very happy with the setup. But, non-technical users sometimes have a hard time getting CamillaDSP properly configured. Nonetheless, the CamillaDSP thread has helped many people in this forum to get it running properly.

 

[rjp]

If I were you I would keep the beautiful Cambridge as a streamer, get a MiniDSP Flex as digital x-over/DSP/volume controller, and connect both digitally. Then also get a MiniDSP Umik2, as without acoustic measurements, subwoofer integration will not work. You can do all measurements using REW software which is available for free.

So far this seems like the best plan. Cambridge streamer (because I already have it) and minidsp Flex with DAC (so I get analog outputs). I could also opt for the Flex with digital outputs and use my Cambridge DAC, but thin I'd need the mini again for streaming.

I already have the Umik1 and REW and have been using it for years with my HT setup. Also, I used to own a minidsp 2x4hd. Returned it because I didn't like the sound quality on the highpass.

 

[rjp]

I have both a Umik1 and a Umik2. They both work great for subwoofer integration and room correction using REW. The OP probably is better off saving money and going with the Umik1. Regardless of which microphone is used, its calibration file should be used in REW.

Yes, I've got the Umik1, cal file, and REW already.

 

[rjp]

I am a somewhat familiar with the miniDSP PEQ setup and I believe room measurements with REW can be saved and directly loaded into miniDSP products to do room equalization (or to at lease give a baseline to start with). How do the WiiM products do their room correction? Can they also load REW files? Do they have both linear eq and peq filters?

 

[rjp]

Regarding the three DACS in these components:

Cambridge Audio cnx v2
WiiM Ultra
miniDSP Flex

Which is best?

Any links to comparisons/reviews appreciated.

 

[john61ct]

rpi , with camilladsp and sound interface with 4 , 6, 8 or more outputs

Can you recommend high-SQ RPI5-friendly interfacii with a low cost per port?

 

[john61ct]

I am a somewhat familiar with the miniDSP PEQ setup and I believe room measurements with REW can be saved and directly loaded into miniDSP products to do room equalization (or to at lease give a baseline to start with)

miniDSP is very limited taps processing power, to me poor value for money

Limitations of MiniDSP

... or any other DSP with only 1024 taps per channel. Over the weekend, I went to a friend's place to help generate some filters for his system. His system consists of 2 subwoofers and 2 mains, with a MiniDSP SHD, which accepts a 2 channel input, convolves filters, and has 4 analog outputs. It...

www.audiosciencereview.com

> How do the WiiM products do their room correction? Also very limited, but automated.

Ultra is good value if you actually need the other features, maybe their RoomFit will be good enough for you. The crossover is 2.1 only though, not stereo subs.

> Can they also load REW files? Neither can afaik, need to enter IIRs via PEQ manually.

An RPI5 or an old PC gives you All the Freedom to learn DSP and choose whatever filters you like.

I don't want a PC on all the time, but once you've established "the optimum" you have a baseline to compare using the less powerful options.

Or see how you feel about that issue

 

[john61ct]

Regarding the three DACS in these components:

Cambridge Audio cnx v2
WiiM Ultra
miniDSP Flex

Which is best?

Any links to comparisons/reviews appreciated.

You would not be able to actually hear any differences if you set up double-blind testing

 

[rjp]

You would not be able to actually hear any differences if you set up double-blind testing

You're probably right, but so may reviewers seem to think they can hear differences it makes me wonder.
I suppose I could connect the digital out of the WiiM Ultra into my cnx v2 digital in to use its DAC for comparison. Would that cause the mains to be delayed compared to the sub channel on the WiiM though?

 

[john61ct]

I doubt if so it would be noticeable.

Plus the Wiim has timing delay / sync functionality

 

[john61ct]

so may reviewers seem to think they can hear differences

This is a huge problem, 90% of them have no clue how useless their subjective impressions are.

And most of the remaining ones are shilling / scamming on purpose

 

[terryforsythe]

> Can they also load REW files? Neither can afaik, need to enter IIRs via PEQ manually.

WiiM, no.

MiniDSP, yes, at least some of them. E.g., I have loaded REW EQ files into my Flex HTx.

miniDSP is very limited taps processing power, to me poor value for money

I think this may only matter if using FIR filters. IIR filters, such as the type REW will generate, are much more efficient. I use IIR filters with my Flex HTx on all 8 channels, and I have no issues whatsoever.

An RPI5 or an old PC gives you All the Freedom to learn DSP and choose whatever filters you like.

I agree.

 

[markstein]

miniDSP is very limited taps processing power, to me poor value for money

Limitations of MiniDSP

... or any other DSP with only 1024 taps per channel. Over the weekend, I went to a friend's place to help generate some filters for his system. His system consists of 2 subwoofers and 2 mains, with a MiniDSP SHD, which accepts a 2 channel input, convolves filters, and has 4 analog outputs. It...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This limitation is related to FIR filters:

FIR filtering - miniDSP Flex User Manual

docs.minidsp.com

I assume the OP will use manual PEQs and high/lowpass filters and delay, and the Flex should offer enough flexibility with 10 PEQ per input and output channel, plus x-over:

Parametric EQ - miniDSP Flex User Manual

docs.minidsp.com

The WiiM does not support FIR filters at all if I am correct.

 

[melomane13]

Can you recommend high-SQ RPI5-friendly interfacii with a low cost per port?

HiFiBerry DAC8x

 

[john61ct]

Yes REW can export FIR, and yes those are the ones, especially at low frequencies that challenge the low-tap convolvers.

Making Exported REW .wav usable as a FIR file for 2x4HD

I'm sure it's somewhere on here, but I haven't been able to find it yet, I made a corrected IR-MP file for my Left and Right channels, REW exports them as a .wav file, I made a 44.1 and a 48k file for each Left and Right MiniDSP wants some 32bit IEEE file type that I can't seem to find anything...

www.minidsp.com

FIR filters via REW?

Hello, Can anybody help how to make FIR filterset for headphones? I'm familiar with taking measurements and autoeq in REW, but I don't know how to start with FIR fitlers. Is it possible to make it with rephase? Is there any android app to apply them later? I have Minidsp EARS and Focusrite 2i2...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It is true that many prefer filter creation tools like rePhase, Acourate, or Audiolense

processing those, you're much better off with a PC or RPI5 for doing your convolving

at least for the learning stages.

 

[john61ct]

HiFiBerry DAC8x

Darn the add-on DSP unit is not compatible with DAC8x ?

What do you reco for low cost DSP on a per-pair basis that is?

Maybe best to answer here if you're willing

Raspberry Pi 5 and CM5 as players and convolvers with lotsa analog ports

Google says, HiFiBerry "DAC+ DSP" can operate completely independently of the Pi after programming!!! [EDIT this post and subsequent are NOT about DAC8x] Then the RPI5 can be repurposed elsewhere in the system? So, use RPI5 (or SigmaStudio?) to program the DAC+ DSP, those settings are stored...

www.audiosciencereview.com

so as not to divert this thread too much?

TIA

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Which WiiM product has the streamer + DSP + DAC?
The Ultra is just 329. Is the quality really on par with the Cambridge Audio CNX v2? Seems rather inexpensive.

EDIT: After some reading it seems listeners are tending to like the cnx v2 sound better than the WiiM ultra.

​

All streamers which provide bit-perfect digital feeds into modern DACs sound identical. Anyone who claims to hear a difference has not performed a proper blinded test with all voltages set to be identical.

I have an older Cambridge streamer feeding my ADI2 Pro. It sounds identical to a laptop feeding the same DAC,

 

[rjp]

All streamers which provide bit-perfect digital feeds into modern DACs sound identical. Anyone who claims to hear a difference has not performed a proper blinded test with all voltages set to be identical.

I have an older Cambridge streamer feeding my ADI2 Pro. It sounds identical to a laptop feeding the same DAC,

Most of the audible differences are attributed to the DAC and its supporting circuitry. The input stream should be identical and not a factor.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Most of the audible differences are attributed to the DAC and its supporting circuitry. The input stream should be identical and not a factor.

Have you seen the review of your streamer? It's DAC and surrounding circuitry are state of the art. But they are not significantly better than alternative DAC circuits. What the review shows is that your streamer has no audible differences between it and other similar devices.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...audio-cxn-v2-measurements-streamer-dac.31915/

 

[rjp]

I may have misunderstood your previous post. I thought you were saying all streamers sound identical if they are feeding the same DAC (your ADI2 Pro).

Yes, I read the review and the remarkable 115 SINAD measurement. Which is much higher than hundreds of other DACS. But this brings up another question. This SINAD was measured at just a single frequency and power level. Clearly the DAC does amazingly well at 1KHz. The harmonics and noise are so far below threshold. But what does this say about other frequencies and input levels? How did the 1K SINAD become the single metric used in ranking?

Not saying it isn't relevant, just wondering if it is really a good indicator of rolled-up performance.