welwynnick
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I know what you mean, but I think it's everyone else that won't be selling many AVPs.
Ain't that the truth.
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miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD
I think 200 pages w/o a product = vaporware.
First, 16 channels is a limitation for a lots of higher end HTs that are based on more channels. So mini is trying to carve out space in the more limited space than just AVPs in general, that are already a niche. With all respect to mini - good luck taking over the market without AVP history.
Ain't that the truth? When you disect a tree, it is important to also take a look at the forest around it. It often is not a sole tree in a desert.
My system is 5.1 but what interests me about the Tide16 are:
- New design without legacy connections.
- Possible improved architecture using ARM for DSP.
- Crossover use for my Passive Bi-amping (sorry if that upsets some... actually not sorry)
- Dirac ART since my front and Rears are Salon2 with decent bass output.
- Engaged Engineering team that can provide updates
- Probably lacks QMS-VRR fast switching.
Ultrasonic
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Where have you seen this? Asking as the manual explicitly refers to an ethernet connection and doesn't mention WiFi?
Power and control - miniDSP Tide16 User Manual
docs.minidsp.com
Nice to have Salon2's fronts and rears for sure. Must be great setup for sure.My system is 5.1 but what interests me about the Tide16 are:
What I don't like:
- New design without legacy connections.
- Possible improved architecture using ARM for DSP.
- Crossover use for my Passive Bi-amping (sorry if that upsets some... actually not sorry)
- Dirac ART since my front and Rears are Salon2 with decent bass output.
- Engaged Engineering team that can provide updates
- Rich
- Probably lacks QMS-VRR fast switching.
Never actually thought about bi-amping and ART. So this thingy would allow you to have multiple outputs for L/R, SLR, SLB that you could call channels fit for ART to take care off? Or did you have something else in mind - without ART?
Funny thing is we are going bananas and don't even know how this thing works in practice. I guess bunch of nerds just killing time as usual
.I for one would love to see AVPs die.
Or rather, the proprietary-algorithm format decoding moved into specialist preamp units that DSP ONLY that function, let them plan churned obsolescence on that unit only, make it as cheap as possible, even a loss leader.
The systemic DSP functions - per-speaker EQ, crossovers, phase / time tuning, all bass management, room compensation functions in a separate box designed to have technological longevity.
Accommodate all filter types, imported from REW, rePhase, Acourate, MSO, Audiolens, the VST world, LADSPA / ACDf / asoundrc formats...
Connect the two different type boxen via multiple ADAT - or something else just as "open" NOT proprietary.
Sell 8- 16- 24- etc channel count units, allow for coordination between them so users can transparently stack them.
Or rather, the proprietary-algorithm format decoding moved into specialist preamp units that DSP ONLY that function, let them plan churned obsolescence on that unit only, make it as cheap as possible, even a loss leader.
The systemic DSP functions - per-speaker EQ, crossovers, phase / time tuning, all bass management, room compensation functions in a separate box designed to have technological longevity.
Accommodate all filter types, imported from REW, rePhase, Acourate, MSO, Audiolens, the VST world, LADSPA / ACDf / asoundrc formats...
Connect the two different type boxen via multiple ADAT - or something else just as "open" NOT proprietary.
Sell 8- 16- 24- etc channel count units, allow for coordination between them so users can transparently stack them.
Really the biggest gripe I have with my MiniDSP Flex Digital is the sampling rate of 48kHz. Looks like this one falls in line as well - pretty disappointing, is it that they cannot find a processor(s) to handle the processing? Can someone explain this to me?
Steakhouse
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You dont need more than 48KHz.
The explanation is nothing higher adds anything real, just higher costs for the sake of marketing to audiphools
On balance that is a solid post to underscore how people still have hope in their own abilities.
Unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing you can do short of figuring out what Dirac does with ART on their server.
All of the things you mention will give a lots of run for the money, but eventually will fall short of ART. I have been tuning Audy with REW and all the filters in the world in LFE+Main configuration and LFE distribution, which would be closest to ART, but nothing really worked remotely as well as ART.
Chill out, and acknowledge that algos are taking over our life. My advice at least.
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Sorry I was not more clear!
These were suggestions on product design / marketing strategy FOR ART to gain a larger niche. And especially aimed at miniDSP.
The Dolby / DTS etc algo's should really have no connection to phase / time tuning, room compensation much less crossovers / bass management functions.
Just as filter creation should be kept separate from convolving.
It's not.
Not trying to start up a bits war here. I should have been more direct with my point - if I feed a processor 192kHz, I would expect it to spit the same sampling rate out. It seems to me the very act of down sampling might (only guessing here) degrade the signal some. Is it a limitation of Dirac? I do know when not using Dirac I get 96kHz.
I actually have two MiniDSP Flex Digital units, very happy with them. On the desktop I take full advantage of DIRAC, while in my media room I just use the miniDSP as a crossover (I have room treatments).
Ok. I've edited to remove misinformation.
I think miniDSP is just using the status quo that we won't hear any differences beyond 48 kHz to inform their AVP design.
That follows by definition just by expressing a desire for higher bitrates in a listening context as opposed to music production.
> if I feed a processor 192kHz
That is a mistake if you don't trust the device doing the downsampling.
If there is any audible degradation, it is truly broken.
> I do know when not using Dirac I get 96kHz
The fault is miniDSP skimping on processor hardware, it simply cannot handle complex high tap count filtering at higher rates.
I wish that were different, but to get more taps not higher rates.
I wanted to follow up after I started a bit of a quarrel about the lack of HDMI 2.1 a few weeks ago.
The trigger was an annoying HDMI handshake issue between my Denon X3700 AVR and the LG G5: the Denon injects ALLM, which forces the G5 into PC Mode and disables a lot of processing features. So I took a closer look at HDFury's portfolio and came across the VRROOM 8K.
At first glance, nearly €600 for an HDMI 2.1 I/O processor feels steep. But after two or three showers thinking it over, I actually came around on it — because it lets you bypass any wonky HDMI processing and use any AVR as a pure pre-processor. Anything that handles ARC/eARC can be reduced to audio-only duty, and the VRROOM effectively becomes the AVR itself. Considering what AVRs usually cost, €579 suddenly looks pretty reasonable for a device that solves basically every HDMI setup problem for the next 5–10 years (HDMI 2.1 should carry us a while at 4K120 / 8K60).
So yeah — I'm happy to backtrack here: the Tide16 is actually a pretty neat device, if you factor in that gamers and PC-couch users will probably need a VRROOM alongside it.
Just wanted to close the loop on this. Have a nice weekend!
The trigger was an annoying HDMI handshake issue between my Denon X3700 AVR and the LG G5: the Denon injects ALLM, which forces the G5 into PC Mode and disables a lot of processing features. So I took a closer look at HDFury's portfolio and came across the VRROOM 8K.
At first glance, nearly €600 for an HDMI 2.1 I/O processor feels steep. But after two or three showers thinking it over, I actually came around on it — because it lets you bypass any wonky HDMI processing and use any AVR as a pure pre-processor. Anything that handles ARC/eARC can be reduced to audio-only duty, and the VRROOM effectively becomes the AVR itself. Considering what AVRs usually cost, €579 suddenly looks pretty reasonable for a device that solves basically every HDMI setup problem for the next 5–10 years (HDMI 2.1 should carry us a while at 4K120 / 8K60).
So yeah — I'm happy to backtrack here: the Tide16 is actually a pretty neat device, if you factor in that gamers and PC-couch users will probably need a VRROOM alongside it.
Just wanted to close the loop on this. Have a nice weekend!