miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

[thcdru2k]

I think miniDSP let you do that on some of their other products, don't they?

rePhase FIR Tool

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

FIR Filter tools

Over the years, miniDSP has built relationships with 3rd party developers creating FIR filter software. Here is a list.

www.minidsp.com

Flex I believe allows FIR filter , but they removed it for Flex HTx

 

[thcdru2k]

Probably plenty capable.

For reference, I am using a miniDSP HTx for an all active 8-ch setup, 6-ch dedicated to the two 3-way speakers and 2-ch dedicated to the subwoofer. It uses a 400MHz SharcDSP audio processor and I have no issues whatsoever. By comparison, the Tide16 uses a 1.8GHz quad core ARM processor.

They did get rid of FIR filtering on Flex HTx though...so the 400MHz processor might have been a limiting factor for them to remove that feature. It was available on the regular Flex. I also have Flex HTx and it is still exceptional imo without FIR filtering.

 

[delta76]

spec sheet says 2.1 for earc, but video passthrough 60hz

The most important thing about HDMI 2.1 is 4K120 video. eARC can works with 2.0 and of course 2.1 but it does not make a difference (because there is none)
4k60hz video passthrough is really raising an eyebrow. Why. People who buy this are unlikely focusing on game consoles where it matter the most, but, why? They are making a flagship product and one minor detail is left behind, while it should be a no brainer

 

[rzrike]

Yes but there is only one one eARC connection so both the Apple and miniDSP devices can't use this. We somehow need to get an audio signal from the Blu-Ray player to the Apple 4k TV and then on to the miniDSP HT?

Not totally sure what you're asking. You connect whatever devices you want to use to your TV's non-eARC HDMI ports, then you connect the HTx to your TV's eARC HDMI port. The only device that needs to be connected the the port labeled eARC is the HTx since it's the only device that needs to the audio return functionality. If the devices or your TV are able to convert losslessly to surround PCM (the ATV being the most common device to do this), then the HTx will work as expected.

The Tide16 doesn't need the devices to convert to PCM since it supports decoding Dolby/DTS internally.

 

[rzrike]

Wow they actually did it, they implemented Dolby Atmos, DTS:X that a lot of people lamented were missing on the flex series.

Also comes with the full Dirac lineup.

According to the product page, it says "Audiophile-grade analog circuitry and converters preserve stereo fidelity while the Tide16 simultaneously handles advanced home-theater processing, making it ideal for combined stereo and home-theater systems". I'm hoping that means they have analog volume control of some kind, this might be the device for me lol

Analog voltage attenuation would be really nice (like in my Topping A90 Discrete); I think it's unlikely though.

 

[thcdru2k]

The most important thing about HDMI 2.1 is 4K120 video. eARC can works with 2.0 and of course 2.1 but it does not make a difference (because there is none)
4k60hz video passthrough is really raising an eyebrow. Why. People who buy this are unlikely focusing on game consoles where it matter the most, but, why? They are making a flagship product and one minor detail is left behind, while it should be a no brainer

I get it, but gamers can just plug consoles or PC directly into the TV for zero-lag 4K120 / VRR and send audio back over eARC. You don’t lose anything that way, so the passthrough issue isn’t really a deal breaker.
And honestly, if not for Chinese tariffs, there isn’t anything else anywhere near this price that offers this level of deep routing and multi-speaker / multi-sub control. At a $3.5k MSRP the miniDSP Tide16 is kind of absurd value.. you’d have to spend well over double for something like StormAudio or Trinnov to get comparable capability.

 

[thcdru2k]

Not totally sure what you're asking. You connect whatever devices you want to use to your TV's non-eARC HDMI ports, then you connect the HTx to your TV's eARC HDMI port. The only device that needs to be connected the the port labeled eARC is the HTx since it's the only device that needs to the audio return functionality. If the devices or your TV are able to convert losslessly to surround PCM (the ATV being the most common device to do this), then the HTx will work as expected.

The Tide16 doesn't need the devices to convert to PCM since it supports decoding Dolby/DTS internally.

Ideally just use an AVR with pre-outs to feed HTx. Full Atmos/DTS:X decoding. For under 8 channels no point in getting Tide 16

 

[Mort]

I wish I had a need for this but HTx and Apple TV with Dirac do what my 5.1 system needs.

 

[jonfitch]

And I should say, probably still very hard to argue with Denon X4800H AVR on its occasional $1450 price at Adorama. Set it in preamp only mode and you have solid performance for $2250 with ART license.

The array of amps is just a bonus. Do with them what you will.

Don't those receivers run hot with minimal heatsinking, often prematurely dying? Would be nicer if Denon didn't focus so much on low profile receivers and used some big heavy duty heatsinks like Yamaha does to insure proper cooling.

 

[rzrike]

Ideally just use an AVR with pre-outs to feed HTx. Full Atmos/DTS:X decoding. For under 8 channels no point in getting Tide 16

That would be going digital to analog to digital to analog, hypothetically increasing distortion along the way. And all the processors that have a digital output are the cost or more than the cost of the Tide 16 anyway. Personally I just use devices that can output LPCM which works alright. The HTx is still great, and it's not like miniDSP has cannibalized its lineup since the price is very different.

 

[nothingman]

Don't those receivers run hot with minimal heatsinking, often prematurely dying? Would be nicer if Denon didn't focus so much on low profile receivers and used some big heavy duty heatsinks like Yamaha does to insure proper cooling.

As I was saying, you can completely shut down the amplifier section if you want. Means no heat buildup.

That gives you 15 channels (11 + 4 sub) of processing, just one less than Tide16. SINAD takes a hit, but as a DAC it’s not terrible. 18bits in the multi-tone and no real big red flags elsewhere. As much as anyone can ask of an AVR.

I’m not a Denon/Marantz fanboy at all, just tossing and turning on whether this Tide16 makes good sense and is ultimately a value. It has hobbyist/pro installer vibes and performance, but would I want to live with one over a x4800h/Cinema 50?

 

[thcdru2k]

That would be going digital to analog to digital to analog, hypothetically increasing distortion along the way. And all the processors that have a digital output are the cost or more than the cost of the Tide 16 anyway. Personally I just use devices that can output LPCM which works alright. The HTx is still great, and it's not like miniDSP has cannibalized its lineup since the price is very different.

Most AVR's analog stages are adequate and minidsp ADC is not noisy at all. Any added distortion is well below what speakers, rooms, and sub introduce. There is an issue of lip-sync latency but that can be managed

 

[thcdru2k]

As I was saying, you can completely shut down the amplifier section if you want. Means no heat buildup.

That gives you 15 channels (11 + 4 sub) of processing, just one less than Tide16. SINAD takes a hit, but as a DAC it’s not terrible. 18bits in the multi-tone and no real big red flags elsewhere. As much as anyone can ask of an AVR.

I’m not a Denon/Marantz fanboy at all, just tossing and turning on whether this Tide16 makes good sense and is ultimately a value. It has hobbyist/pro installer vibes and performance, but would I want to live with one over a x4800h/Cinema 50?

AVR control of delay is an order of magnitude below miniDSP. .01ft vs .01ms But to each their own...

 

[Mort]

It has hobbyist/pro installer vibes and performance, but would I want to live with one over a x4800h/Cinema 50?

You've been pretty down on it. It's probably not targeted at you. Why on earth would I buy an an htx and stick an AVR in front of it? To me that seems ridiculous, but only goes to show we all have different use cases.

 

[DrStranger]

Just received the newsletter, sounds like the one to rule them all (rather expansive at 3500 USD, but ok)

Tide16

miniDSP Tide16, Immersive AV-DSP Processors powered by Quad Core ARM processor, 16ch balanced analog outputs, 3x1 HDMI , USB audio, Bluetooth, Including license for Dirac Live + DLBC + ART suite

www.minidsp.com

View attachment 504360
View attachment 504362

Hardware Features​

• Processor: Quad Core ARM processor / 1.8GHz
• HDMI 2.0 + EARC/ARC interface (3x1)
• Included License: Dirac Live® 3.x full rance, Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) and Active Room Correction (ART)
• Audiophile performance with very low noise floor and distortion (SNR @127dB(A), THD+N @ -118dB (0.0001%)
• Inputs: Stereo digital (SPDIF x 2 / Optical x 2), Analog input (XLR/RCA),USB Audio streaming
• Outputs: 16 fully balanced audio (XLR)
• 1080p Color OLED front panel controller with IR control
• Control and configuration by web user interface and miniDSP Device Console (DC)

Product Brief:

https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product%20Brief%20-%20miniDSP%20Tide16.pdf

What do you think?
Measurements need some @amirm treatment for sure

I’m mostly impressed by the size and design, but confused by the HDMI, does it want to be a 2.0 or a 2.1 or a Malcom in the middle, 2.0b.

 

[nothingman]

You've been pretty down on it. It's probably not targeted at you. Why on earth would I buy an an htx and stick an AVR in front of it? To me that seems ridiculous, but only goes to show we all have different use cases.

Don't those receivers run hot with minimal heatsinking, often prematurely dying? Would be nicer if Denon didn't focus so much on low profile receivers and used some big heavy duty heatsinks like Yamaha does to insure proper cooling.

I would just say I have some healthy skepticism, given it’s such a giant leap for them. Will be keeping an eye on it.

 

[delta76]

I get it, but gamers can just plug consoles or PC directly into the TV for zero-lag 4K120 / VRR and send audio back over eARC. You don’t lose anything that way, so the passthrough issue isn’t really a deal breaker.
And honestly, if not for Chinese tariffs, there isn’t anything else anywhere near this price that offers this level of deep routing and multi-speaker / multi-sub control. At a $3.5k MSRP the miniDSP Tide16 is kind of absurd value.. you’d have to spend well over double for something like StormAudio or Trinnov to get comparable capability.

I used to do that when my avr was not 2.1 capable but trust me it is more problematic than it sounds. HDMI handshakes are not trouble free.also you lost Hue light sync which might be big deal for some . In any case if this AVP is not fully 2.1 capable, it is one missing feature that is small but stands out like a sore thumb, because, why

 

[Keith_W]

I think miniDSP let you do that on some of their other products, don't they?

(This conversation was regarding loading your own FIR filters into MiniDSP)

I don't think this is true for Dirac enabled MiniDSP devices, although I could be wrong. The MiniDSP that I borrowed had FIR on the input stage, which was locked by Dirac. I couldn't figure out how to upload my own FIR into the device. As for this device, I would also be paying for a Dirac license that I will not be using.

 

[bungle]

These are the processors I'm aware of that have multi channel digital outputs:

View attachment 504435

Where is this list from? If from you, care to share online?

 

[welwynnick]

Where is this list from? If from you, care to share online?

Its my list, built up over the last couple of years. See the "Decode" tab.
Here it is, amongst many other things....