Not much competes with Storm, if we’re being honest!
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miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD
welwynnick
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Lower SINAD and higher cost. There are several threads about the Hyperion APR-16 and DPR-16 and the Tide-16, and the point of them is that you don't buy a Storm (or Trinnov).
With all these things in AV9, I would still not buy it as they don't represent any particular value to me. But obviously people might have different needs.Really? I thought they know they can't keep them all happy, some (probably you included) might say the there isn't higher maximum filter tap limit for ART, wish it wouldn't limit (or downsample to) sampling rate to 48 kHz when RC (Audyssey or DL) is in use, couldn't play DSD native up to 512 or even 1028 etc. etc. etc., and/or also 115 dB SINAD....., so AV10 is probably not the answer either, and the AV9 might get closer.
AV10 is around 5K EUR in EU if one is looking for a deal. I can highly recommend AV10, and if people still have money to spare, probably better to donate that extra 15K to your favorite charity than Storm unless they "must have" more than 15+4 channels.
I really can't say much about the holy grail as would need to see reviews and hands on experience. So many things might go wrong with AVP. I certainly hope that they nail it so there is more choice for the consumer.
Storm and Trinnov lead the field for years, but their high gross margins make them ripe for disruption, all be it from manufacturers with lower service support models
Trinnov is probably safe as unique market that requires custom installation. Storm is at the crossroad, let's see how they proceed. There are numerous processors that are out there effectively competing with Storm within their channel count at much lower prices.
The whole thing about more ART filters on Storm is true. But then if we are talking about EUR15K difference, upgrading the speakers and subs within that budget (or half?) would for sure give you more mileage than the almost infinite filters on Storm. I can actually get amazing results by using only half filters on my AV10. I use all of them as they are available. I would probably use more if available. But do I really need to use them is the right question.
welwynnick
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Very sensibly, I think they've seen the way the market is going , and already declared their intention at ISE26 with the Storm EVO Light:
ban25
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Indeed. Until somebody has actually quantified the impact of filter count / cross-products with measurements, I'll be skeptical of any perceived advantage or disadvantage.
markus
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Exactly my point. He was looking for a true do-it-all processor in the $5K+ range, and StormAudio even ticks the “+” box
The real question is: do you actually need all those features, or just a subset? The Tide16 might already cover what you need, and it comes at a much lower cost.
markus
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“Cross-products”? Do you mean cross terms? That simply refers to the number of support speakers that ART can use. It has nothing to do with filters.
ban25
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I've seen conflicting information on that, but yes, I'm referring to the "filters" referenced in the Dirac UI during calibration.
If you are waiting for me that will be a mighty long time. But with 4 subs and bookshelves extending to 80hz F3 you will be all set. Depending on size of the room one could also do with 2 subs.
How do I know? Well looking at all the filters and what they do and how they sound on what is an oversized setup that ART has effectively superseded.
Speakers should be chosen based on SPL requirements not low extension as multiple subs will do better in low end.
SINAD is a good start, but these devices are not measured with AVP engaged.
Measurements with a simple bass-management engaged would be nice.
- Rich
That's a very good point. It all comes down to what features you need or want and if you are willing to pay for those features. For me the Tide 16 meets my needs and fits my budget. Disclaimer, I'm not a gamer and I care more about audio quality.Exactly my point. He was looking for a true do-it-all processor in the $5K+ range, and StormAudio even ticks the “+” box
The real question is: do you actually need all those features, or just a subset? The Tide16 might already cover what you need, and it comes at a much lower cost.
Still downsamples to 48kHz.
Does it support 4k120FPS?
Edit: Also if Denon is able to squeeze hdmi 2.1 in a 500 € AVR, miniDSP should be able to do so too. HDMI 2.1 is out for what, 3 years now?
welwynnick
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Disagree.
It's not a bug, but it's only a smart feature for the manufacturer so they can save money on their hardware.
It's all artful marketing BS, where a limitation in their design is made to appear to be a positive feature.
Typically, a manufacturer will promote something, and make it sound good, but all too often it's just addressing an existing deficiency. Happens all the time.
If there's material out there that is sampled at high rates (and there is) then it should be processed at high rates.
The decision on sampling rate should be based on established distribution, not replay hardware.
Trinnov can process better than 16 channels at 24 bits x 96 kHz using a $200 CPU, so what excuses can there be?
For my needs...
Pluses/Acceptable
- 3 Inputs, tight but doable.
- Remove legacy stuff: FM Radio, analog video
- New architecture - provides the opportunity for clean start and good design.
- Power Efficiency - It will be nice to avoid 40 watts 24/7.
Minuses
- 3 Inputs, its cutting it close, 4 would have been better.
- QMS-VRR - It will be hard to go back after using this on the RMC-1+
- Roon Ready - I'd like the opportunity to go direct to the processor.
Unknowns
- Startup time - 10 seconds or less is fine. Close to a minute is ANNOYING.
- Upgradability - An HDMI upgrade option would be nice.
- How does it sound? - Sounds like a question for Spock.
I'm on the hairy edge. MiniDSP: Need a seasoned beta-tester
- Rich
I'd add locking on to signal. 2 sec is good, 5 sec with multiple drop-outs during that time is annoying. Anything beyond that is unacceptable. Stability is another thing - if it freezes along the way well probably better to look for other options. CEC support is also important for most. Interface with Dirac is also a serious option - if not stable, it is beyond annoyance.For my needs...
Pluses/Acceptable
- 3 Inputs, tight but doable.
- Remove legacy stuff: FM Radio, analog video
- New architecture - provides the opportunity for clean start and good design.
- Power Efficiency - It will be nice to avoid 40 watts 24/7.
Minuses
- 3 Inputs, its cutting it close, 4 would have been better.
- QMS-VRR - It will be hard to go back after using this on the RMC-1+
- Roon Ready - I'd like the opportunity to go direct to the processor.
Unknowns
- Startup time - 10 seconds or less is fine. Close to a minute is ANNOYING.
- Upgradability - An HDMI upgrade option would be nice.
- How does it sound? - Sounds like a question for Spock.
I'm on the hairy edge. MiniDSP: Need a seasoned beta-tester
- Rich
This thing better performs as entering the space of very well performing AVPs (even though it is something apparently different).
I do agree if you are paying the prices asked for some of these processors you would think they could process at any sample rate which leads me to believe the issue may be latency. For some types of filters latency is inherent and can not be reduced even with infinite processing power but latency can be reduced with lower sampling rates.