miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

[Tre2023]

sorry for the noob question, but with your Mac mini setup do you use an external Apple TV box or you're using the Apple TV app installed on the mini?

I do use the Apple TV app in the Mac mini M1 occasionally depending on how I have configured the setup. I periodically switch out AVRs and connect some devices directly to the TV from time to time. When configured accordingly with a USB-C adapter running special firmware on the mini, I output everything in 4K HDR RGB 10 bit @120Hz. Video playback on Apple TV 4K app using these settings is actually better than when using the Apple TV 4K or Nvidia Shield TV Pro to my eyes as the image is very sharp and smooth. However, for movies on Fandango at Home or Movies Anywhere, the picture and sound on the Nvidia Shield TV Pro can't be beat except by the best 4K discs. Results will vary of course.

I never updated to a newer Apple TV 4K and will not do so until it can Bitstream/Passthrough audio signals, support Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio, support hi-res and bit perfect output and improve on the HDMI-CEC features. These are just some of the ways that the Nvidia Shield TV Pro betters it. Though, the Shield does not support HDR10+ for those that need it for TVs not supporting Dolby Vision and the Match Frame Rate(BETA) feature must be activated manually for each viewing session.

 

[pat355]

I do use the Apple TV app in the Mac mini M1 occasionally depending on how I have configured the setup. I periodically switch out AVRs and connect some devices directly to the TV from time to time. When configured accordingly with a USB-C adapter running special firmware on the mini, I output everything in 4K HDR RGB 10 bit @120Hz. Video playback on Apple TV 4K app using these settings is actually better than when using the Apple TV 4K or Nvidia Shield TV Pro to my eyes as the image is very sharp and smooth. However, for movies on Fandango at Home or Movies Anywhere, the picture and sound on the Nvidia Shield TV Pro can't be beat except by the best 4K discs. Results will vary of course.

I never updated to a newer Apple TV 4K and will not do so until it can Bitstream/Passthrough audio signals, support Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio, support hi-res and bit perfect output and improve on the HDMI-CEC features. These are just some of the ways that the Nvidia Shield TV Pro betters it. Though, the Shield does not support HDR10+ for those that need it for TVs not supporting Dolby Vision and the Match Frame Rate(BETA) feature must be activated manually for each viewing session.

thank you, very clear

 

[Schollaudio]

I don't see support for DSD and looks like PCM is down sampled to 48K for processing.

 

[pat355]

I don't see support for DSD and looks like PCM is down sampled to 48K for processing.

yes, this was discussed ad nauseam in previous pages...

 

[jhaider]

I don't see support for DSD and looks like PCM is down sampled to 48K for processing.

If you want native DSD support get an early 2000s AVP. DSD is so crippling that none of the material advances (ART) will work unless converted to the modern format.

 

[Esprit]

sorry for the noob question, but with your Mac mini setup do you use an external Apple TV box or you're using the Apple TV app installed on the mini?

The mini doesn't play Dolby Vision, but Apple TV does.

 

[markstein]

Um, Dirac research charge more for a 96KHz capable license for their software than a 48KHz capable licence. That would increase the cost of the product.

The DSP does not ‘need’ to operate at 96KHz for 48KHz program material, all it would do is reduce the processing delay.

The only 96KHz Dirac implementation I’m aware of is in the Theta Casablanca and you can go look up the price of that for your self.

The miniDSP SHD works with 96kHz, incl. Dirac

 

[chelgrian]

The miniDSP SHD works with 96kHz, incl. Dirac

I should have qualified that with HT processor with sufficient channels for immersive audio. The SHD only has four channels.

 

[markstein]

I should have qualified that with HT processor with sufficient channels for immersive audio. The SHD only has four channels.

That's true.

And not to be misunderstood: we do not need higher sample rates than 48kHz for playback of course.

 

[Tre2023]

The mini doesn't play Dolby Vision, but Apple TV does.

Using BetterDisplay app on a Mac, one can select Dolby Vision Full RGB(4:4:4 12 bit @60Hz) or Low Latency Dolby Vision (YCbCr 4:2:2 12 bit @60Hz) as the HDR mode. But, Full setting outputs extreme colors that are way off and mostly red. Low Latency Dolby Vision works but text suffers a bit compared to SDR RGB setting. But, with no Dynamic Range or Match Frame Rate features like the Apple TV 4K, everything is output the same.

The image is best to me when set to HDR10 RGB 10 bit @120Hz on an LG C1. But, this requires an adapter using the M1 as the HDMI 2.0 port is limited to 18 Gbps.

The Apple TV 4K supports TV led Dolby Vision but has no Low Latency Dolby Vision mode available for selection like the Nvidia Shield TV Pro when Developer mode is enabled.

 

[Owis]

Apple added a “Continous Audio” setting update to the Apple TV 4K which is not a Bitstream/Passthrough setting and is not supported on the Gen 1. As a result, playback of Dolby Atmos on the Gen 1 is broken and it must be disabled in settings or playback will not occur of material streamed in Dolby Atmos.

Broken how? I have a gen 1 and have not disabled Atmos in the settings and it still works as it always did.

 

[Tre2023]

Unfortunately, my unit does not currently do so.

 

[welwynnick]

And not to be misunderstood: we do not need higher sample rates than 48kHz for playback of course.

If the audio is recorded, mastered and distributed at a higher sample rate, I believe that the (expensive) replay equipment shouldn't be the bottleneck.

Alternatively one could say that we do not need 16 channels, either.

 

[staticV3]

If the audio is recorded, mastered and distributed at a higher sample rate, I believe that the (expensive) replay equipment shouldn't be the bottleneck.

Bottleneck for what though.

Downsampling to 48kHz will still reproduce the 192kHz master with 100% transparency. Nothing is lost, except in some cases useless ultrasonic noise.

 

[welwynnick]

Downsampling to 48kHz will still reproduce the 192kHz master with 100% transparency. Nothing is lost, except in some cases useless ultrasonic noise.

I understand why you say that, but it's not about what you or I think is transparent. I still think the processor shouldn't be the bottleneck. If the audio is distributed at high rate, it should be processed at high. The distribution is the difficult bit, not the processing.

 

[chelgrian]

Broken how? I have a gen 1 and have not disabled Atmos in the settings and it still works as it always did.

Continuous audio is a tvOS 26.4 (not released yet) feature which continuously sends digital silence across the HDMI link to avoid the HDMI receiver going in to a power saving mode.

This fixes issues with thing like Sonos systems where the unit would produce pops as parts of the audio path went to sleep.

Doing this involves sending Atmos as PCM inside Dolby MAT2. This is not ‘broken’ regardless of what people on this forum think and is just as valid as passing TrueHD or EAC through the MAT2 connection. There is literally no difference by the time it hits the Atmos renderer.

If it was ‘broken’ then it would never pass Dolby’s conformance tests and the companies would not have the right to call the options Atmos or to use the Dolby logo.

 

[EWL5]

Continuous audio is a tvOS 26.4 (not released yet) feature which continuously sends digital silence across the HDMI link to avoid the HDMI receiver going in to a power saving mode.

This fixes issues with thing like Sonos systems where the unit would produce pops as parts of the audio path went to sleep.

Doing this involves sending Atmos as PCM inside Dolby MAT2. This is not ‘broken’ regardless of what people on this forum think and is just as valid as passing TrueHD or EAC through the MAT2 connection. There is literally no difference by the time it hits the Atmos renderer.

If it was ‘broken’ then it would never pass Dolby’s conformance tests and the companies would not have the right to call the options Atmos or to use the Dolby logo.

Excellent points! There are always folks who won't believe something is happening unless they see the codec bitstreamed and displayed on their AVR screen.

64 pages in this thread and we don't even have hands on the Tide16 yet. Something tells me launch is delayed as not even Deer Creek Audio is committing to Spring anymore.

 

[peng]

64 pages in this thread and we don't even have hands on the Tide16 yet. Something tells me launch is delayed as not even Deer Creek Audio is committing to Spring anymore.

I don't understand why Solen keep showing they have it in stock.

Edit: It is clear in the fine print text, that it is not actually in stock, my point is, don't know why they still hasn't updated the part on the front page heading where it says "in stock".

TIDE16​

(0)

In stock

TIDE16

miniDSP TIDE16, 16ch AV-DSP Processor, 16 x Balanced Analog Outputs, 3x1 HDMI , USB audio, Bluetooth, Dirac Live + DLBC + ART suite. !!! ITEM NOT ACTUALLY IN STOCK, ALLOW MINIMUM 3 WEEKS FOR DELIVERY !!! Release Details(Q2 of 2026): Tide16 will become available Q2 of 2026.

solen.ca

 

[monsterlag]

I don't understand why Solen keep showing they have it in stock.

TIDE16

miniDSP TIDE16, 16ch AV-DSP Processor, 16 x Balanced Analog Outputs, 3x1 HDMI , USB audio, Bluetooth, Dirac Live + DLBC + ART suite. !!! ITEM NOT ACTUALLY IN STOCK, ALLOW MINIMUM 3 WEEKS FOR DELIVERY !!! Release Details(Q2 of 2026): Tide16 will become available Q2 of 2026.

solen.ca

Hmm I am near the Canadian border. I can pick it up from their store. Comes to like $3600 USD.

 

[EWL5]

I don't understand why Solen keep showing they have it in stock.

TIDE16

miniDSP TIDE16, 16ch AV-DSP Processor, 16 x Balanced Analog Outputs, 3x1 HDMI , USB audio, Bluetooth, Dirac Live + DLBC + ART suite. !!! ITEM NOT ACTUALLY IN STOCK, ALLOW MINIMUM 3 WEEKS FOR DELIVERY !!! Release Details(Q2 of 2026): Tide16 will become available Q2 of 2026.

solen.ca

If it was in stock, this thread would already be at 100 pages by now. LOL!