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miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

Throwing my hat in the ring to describe my use case and ramble. My current setup uses the Flex HTx which is wonderful but I have no surround and too few channels even for stereo. My current setup is stereo 4 way plus rumblers on the seat with their own compression/filters daisy-chained off the Flex's L/R Woofer ouputs.

I foresee the Tide, as a pre/pro/XO doing a few things for me:
  • Eliminating the rumbler daisy-chain and the associated secondary DSP box
  • Center channel, prob 2 way active
  • L/R Surrounds
  • Adding 2x spatial channels or going active 2-way with the surrounds
My experience with the Flex has been massively positive and I'm very excited for the prospect of reincorporating surround in my space. Just having some simple DSP derived surround at a low level will help my asymmetrical room to sound more consistent for stereo, that's the biggest failing in my space, is you can "hear" that one side is open. Horns and multisub mitigate it but ultimately it's wall vs. no wall and having more system-sourced filler will reduce that effect when managed/EQ'd correctly.

Most users here seem to prefer speaker systems with integral XOs, so my massively multiway active use case isn't the norm around here. But I think that's what makes this unit so special- a broad toolkit, with very transparent electronics (the low noise... absolutely necessary for my setup) facilitates a setup like mine, where low noise and the flexible channel-routing with modern codecs is the value add- 5.2.2 is about as much as this space could tolerate.
 
Keith_W said:
Don't make any judgements. How good it sounds will depend on how well it was tuned, the speakers, and the room. About the only thing you can judge at a show is the build quality. Everything else, you can learn here.
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Considering the performance of the Marantz separates and this incoming Mini DSP, the deciding factor are the functionalities. SINAD on both indicate that you´d not notice an improvement in pure performance from one to the other.
 
So are these going to be orderable after Chinese New Year, I hope? Originally it was 4 weeks from mid january.
 
Mort said:
So are these going to be orderable after Chinese New Year, I hope? Originally it was 4 weeks from mid january.
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I hear some folks take like a month off in China and Hong Kong. It is their biggest holiday after all!
 
EWL5 said:
I hear some folks take like a month off in China and Hong Kong. It is their biggest holiday after all!
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Minidsp specified they would take a week off. I should have added.
 
So even though it doesn’t have HDMI 2.1, if I want to use 4k 120 Hz inputs and my TV doesn’t support the codec over eARC (LG DTS….), I guess I can still use one of those cheapo HDMI switches that can extract eARC right?

EDIT:
Yeah I found them recommending hdfury vrroom
 
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aphysically said:
So even though it doesn’t have HDMI 2.1, if I want to use 4k 120 Hz inputs and my TV doesn’t support the codec over eARC (LG DTS….), I guess I can still use one of those cheapo HDMI switches that can extract eARC right?

EDIT:
Yeah I found them recommending hdfury vrroom
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I have that. It's overkill. I think the Vertex is as good if you just want earc.
 
MarsianC# said:
Just received the newsletter, sounds like the one to rule them all (rather expansive at 3500 USD, but ok)

Tide16

miniDSP Tide16, Immersive AV-DSP Processors powered by Quad Core ARM processor, 16ch balanced analog outputs, 3x1 HDMI , USB audio, Bluetooth, Including license for Dirac Live + DLBC + ART suite
www.minidsp.com www.minidsp.com
View attachment 504360
View attachment 504362

Hardware Features​

  • Processor: Quad Core ARM processor / 1.8GHz
  • HDMI 2.0 + EARC/ARC interface (3x1)
  • Included License: Dirac Live® 3.x full rance, Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) and Active Room Correction (ART)
  • Audiophile performance with very low noise floor and distortion (SNR @127dB(A), THD+N @ -118dB (0.0001%)
  • Inputs: Stereo digital (SPDIF x 2 / Optical x 2), Analog input (XLR/RCA),USB Audio streaming
  • Outputs: 16 fully balanced audio (XLR)
  • 1080p Color OLED front panel controller with IR control
  • Control and configuration by web user interface and miniDSP Device Console (DC)
Product Brief:

What do you think?
Measurements need some @amirm treatment for sure ;)
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I can’t wait to see an in-depth dissection of this one and see how it performs
 
This should properly decode Tidal Atmos from an AppleTV, right?
 
Mort said:
This should properly decode Tidal Atmos from an AppleTV, right?
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Not sure about that. I think in that setup the Apple TV would be doing the Atmos decoding and outputting multichannel PCM. The MiniDSP will probably be able to use that input and give you sound out but it isn't ideal. I'd much prefer the MiniDSP to be doing the decoding.

What settings does the AppleTV offer to specify the speaker configuration that will be used? (This information is needed to do the decoding correctly).

Way back in the first gen AppleTV, Dolby Digital era, it was possible for the channel order to get messed up between the AppleTV and AVR.

Hopefully Apple have it sorted by now, but I would still much rather they allow bitstreaming so that the downstream device (MiniDSP in this case) gets to work on a clean Dolby Atmos signal, rather than a potentially botched one. How can you be sure your MiniDSP and AppleTV speaker config settings are working together optimally?
 
-Matt- said:
Not sure about that. I think in that setup the Apple TV would be doing the Atmos decoding and outputting multichannel PCM. The MiniDSP will probably be able to use that input and give you sound out but it isn't ideal. I'd much prefer the MiniDSP to be doing the decoding.
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The Apple TV can bitstream. Tide16 can be used for decoding.
 
staticV3 said:
The Apple TV can bitstream. Tide16 can be used for decoding.
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Oh good. When did they finally relent and enable that feature? Customers were asked for this for YEARS!
 
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staticV3 said:
The Apple TV can bitstream...
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-Matt- said:
Oh good. When did they finally relent and enable that feature? Customers were asked for this for YEARS!
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Hmm, I'm seeing contradictory comments about this. It seems there were rumors and then it turned out to be false again. Can you link to a reference or test that actually confirms it?

Which apps support passthrough? On which models of AppleTV? Does it work for DTS, does it do 96kHz 24bit, etc, etc?

Lack of passthrough audio is the one thing that forced me away from AppleTV. It is quite a big deal if true.
 
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-Matt- said:
Hmm, I'm seeing contradictory comments about this. It seems there were rumors and then it turned out to be false again. Can you link to a reference or test that actually confirms it?

Which apps support passthrough? On which models of AppleTV? Does it work for DTS, does it do 96kHz 24bit, etc, etc?

Lack of passthrough audio is the one thing that forced me away from AppleTV. It is quite a big deal if true.
Click to expand...
It’s not true.
IMG_0278.jpeg
 
I have an Apple TV hooked up to a Denon 4800h. Atmos on Apple Music sounds great and it’s decoded perfectly by the Denon. I would think the same would happen with the Tide16. You just need to set the Apple TV to output the format unchanged.

The Tidal app is another story. For some reason whenever it’s paying multichannel the signal is greatly attenuated. And the app looks very primitive compared to to Apple Music.

Apple Music is 48kHz 24bit lossless and they have usually curated the music and found the best source material. I presume Apple uses the best SRC possible to get everything to 48 kHz so you don’t need to worry about the SRC in your equipment. Most recordings are excellent, although I have found a couple that aren’t great. On Tidal you can see multiple versions of the various recordings, some better than others, and you have to curate them yourself.

Lots of discussion on whether 48 kHz is lossless to humans. I’m convinced it is if the SRC is properly done. Some might disagree
 
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staticV3 said:
MAT is still encoded Atmos, carried via LPCM packets alongside object metadata to the Tide16 for decoding.
Click to expand...

"Atmos" in the context of a bitstream refers to TrueHD or DD+ with a substream containing the spatial data needed to derive the height channels. This is not what the Apple TV uses, the Apple TV decodes the bitsteam to PCM, retaining the spatial information via metadata.

This is done so that the Apple TV can insert its own audio effects and such like. What will be passed on to the Tide16 is not the bitstream, it's the Apple TV derived PCM signal.

Personally I see nothing wrong with this, I have no issues with the output of my Apple TV to my AVR and I don't think @-Matt- needs to be concerned.
 
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