miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

[EWL5]

Some answers to some questions, plus other answers.

Tide16

support.minidsp.com

Looks like they're listening. Question answered very well:

• Yes, the spec list mixes HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 features. That’s because HDMI is a bundle of different capabilities, and we support some HDMI 2.1 functions (like eARC and VRR) but not bandwidth‑heavy ones such as 8K60 or 4K120. Those require a different class of chipset.
• The first major challenge was chipset availability. Accessing true HDMI 2.1 switching chipsets is far from straightforward—the supply chain hurdles are real. If we had waited for them, Tide16 wouldn’t exist today. Choosing a mature HDMI 2.0b platform (which still supports select HDMI 2.1 features) allowed us to build something stable and ship it. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
• The second challenge was certification and licensing. HDMI 2.1 is significantly more complex to validate, test, and certify. Rather than delay the entire product, we prioritized delivering a reliable, feature‑rich solution at a price point where nothing comparable exists.

 

[EWL5]

I'll wave Keith's flag for him.
These threads explain where the state of the art in DSP is.
I think this only came about because someone referred to Dirac as being the state of the art, and some people have moved beyond that.

Understanding the state of the DSP market

I thought I would make a public service post about DSP, because I have noticed that many people don't seem to understand it. I hope this post helps you understand what a DSP product offers you, what the advantages and disadvantages are, and ultimately help you choose what you want or need. This...

www.audiosciencereview.com

A comparison of convolution engines

Introduction Some members have systems where the audio crossover is performed by the PC. These are typically .WAV files that contain all the information required for the crossover to function: high and low pass filters, driver correction, room correction, delays for time alignment, etc. A...

www.audiosciencereview.com

ASR Acourate users

There are a number of threads about Acourate on ASR, but there does not seem to be an "Acourate user group". There is an actual Acourate User Group, but that place is pretty quiet and full of existing Acourate users. I thought I would create a thread so that we can discuss and share what we are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I don't have time to read through those threads. Please list the products that contain said SOTA room correction (if you please).

 

[voodooless]

Some answers to some questions, plus other answers.

Tide16

support.minidsp.com

Well, at least we know why full 2.1 support is not in right now Technically, there is nothing we didn't already know.

 

[voodooless]

I don't have time to read through those threads. Please list the products that contain said SOTA room correction (if you please).

I think the point here is that for SOTA room correction, you'll have to get your grubby fingers of the Dirac button and do some actual work yourself

 

[EWL5]

I think the point here is that for SOTA room correction, you'll have to get your grubby fingers of the Dirac button and do some actual work yourself

Right. My whole point is the DIY crowd is so niche that it wouldn't make any business sense to sell only to them. AVPs are already a tough sell over AVRs. Now you'll make an AVP w/no room correction?!!

 

[dwkdnvr]

minidsp-rs

Whoa! How did I not know about this? Thanks for mentioning it.

 

[voodooless]

Right. My whole point is the DIY crowd is so niche that it wouldn't make any business sense to sell only to them. AVPs are already a tough sell over AVRs. Now you'll make an AVP w/no room correction?!!

Well, the DIY crowd is mostly what MiniDSP lived on for years

But yes, I agree. Selling an AVP without a simple room correction solution is rather pointless. You should have seen the comments if there were no Dirac ART in this thing .

 

[Keith_W]

I don't have time to read through those threads. Please list the products that contain said SOTA room correction (if you please).

This is a very bad analogy, but it's like comparing automatic transmission to manual transmission. Except that in this case, the automatic transmission is really primitive, frequently selects the wrong gear, etc. For proof, go look at all the DLBC measurements in the ART thread. I have examined nearly all of them. Is the manual transmission going to be any better? Well, that depends on your skill. For many people, the auto transmission will be better because they are absolutely dreadful drivers. But if you know how to drive, you are better off with manual.

With manual correction, state of the art depends on the user. The software is merely the tool. So the product that has SOTA room correction? That would be REW and it's various add-ons.

 

[jhaider]

I think they wanted some more of the mainstream crowd money and Dirac has instant name recognition for the hobby in 2026 (not to mention the excitement brought to enthusiasts when ART became available to sub $2k AVRs).

Um, miniDSP has been working with Dirac for over a dozen years now. I have their OG “DDRC-22D,” a 2-channel digital I/O box designed solely for use with the Dirac Live, which I purchased in 2014, sitting in a closet somewhere. And it was not a newly introduced product at that time.

Indeed, there’s some disappointment that despite the long history of collaboration with Dirac, miniDSP has yet to modernize their product lines to keep up with Dirac’s advancements. So no DLBC on anything, and no ART except here. (Personally, I had at least one miniDSP box in every audio system for years and years, starting with their debut 2x4 box. Now there are none, because they have not kept up with the market.)

I think that stagnation is short-sighted by both companies. MiniDSP’s customer base tends to be more sophisticated than the average hobbyist, and more patient. So including Dirac’s best would allow Dirac to identify and resolve bugs more quickly, and get good ideas to incorporate in new releases for free. While selling more licenses. And miniDSP would both keep existing customers and attract new ones.

 

[rzrike]

Um, miniDSP has been working with Dirac for over a dozen years now. I have their OG “DDRC-22D,” a 2-channel digital I/O box designed solely for use with the Dirac Live, which I purchased in 2014, sitting in a closet somewhere. And it was not a newly introduced product at that time.

Indeed, there’s some disappointment that despite the long history of collaboration with Dirac, miniDSP has yet to modernize their product lines to keep up with Dirac’s advancements. So no DLBC on anything, and no ART except here. (Personally, I had at least one miniDSP box in every audio system for years and years, starting with their debut 2x4 box. Now there are none, because they have not kept up with the market.)

I think that stagnation is short-sighted by both companies. MiniDSP’s customer base tends to be more sophisticated than the average hobbyist, and more patient. So including Dirac’s best would allow Dirac to identify and resolve bugs more quickly, and get good ideas to incorporate in new releases for free. While selling more licenses. And miniDSP would both keep existing customers and attract new ones.

That’s the whole point of this product announcement… this is miniDSP keeping up with Dirac’s advancements. You want them to go back in time?

 

[thcdru2k]

How many systems have an expensive streamer/DAC flowing through a Flex... sampling rate is such a non-issue when it comes to sound quality. The benefits far outweigh any resampling.

FIR import is advantageous when designing multi-way speakers, targeting linear-phase behavior, correcting deterministic driver/crossover issues, or trying to optimize sound across multiple seats. It automates broad smoothing that a careful user could only achieve with way more effort. Dirac ART realistically is going to be far better at this than custom or third-party implementation and with the name brand-recognition to boot but $/point of sound quality it would still be nice to allow like they did in the original Flex. It makes really pretty graphs which I've noticed the hobby in general is equating with better sound quality always.

Manual calibration focusing on IIR (PEQ, delay, gain, polarity, crossover) is superior for single-seat optimization, multi-sub integration, asymmetric rooms, SBIR or geometry-driven nulls, and nonstandard crossover design. Better time-domain behavior and bass localization even if the frequency looks less perfect on a graph. This ugly graph may not look pretty but it can absolutely sound better especially at a single-seat.

FIR is basically replacing work that can be done manually trading time and effort for automation, seat-to-seat consistency, and really pretty graphs.

Tide 16 covers both the multi-seat optimizers and single-seat optimizers .... maybe not the professional gamers but I mean professional gamers probably want to connect to the display to reduce any possible lag induced even if an AVR can passthrough VRR/ALLM.

 

[JoshK]

For me, this product piques my interest only as a possible solution for crossover/DSP filtering, not for surround sound. It would be the product to possibly rival my dspNexus 2/8. That is if you can import your own filters like Keith mentioned.

It would seem like a good move for miniDSP to allow that, either in this product or upcoming product. Their target market (majority) won't likely be the active crossover guys, but rather the HT guys, but if the solution can easily cover our needs as well then they open up to more users.

For me, this is interesting because it has XLR outputs. It looks like it has a volume control, can anyone verify that?

 

[thcdru2k]

There are folks both in ASR and AVS who have used ART for near-field listening. If you're able to get rid of the decay rates faster and/or easier than ART, then I agree the Tide16 makes no sense.

I personally cannot do it faster ... recording sweeps .01ms step,1hz step, level matching and repeating for multiple driver combinations is extremely time consuming and drives my wife crazy hearing sweeps all day long but she enjoys the system now more than I do. Granted I do not need 16 channels so Tide16 makes no sense for me either way.

 

[thcdru2k]

For me, this product piques my interest only as a possible solution for crossover/DSP filtering, not for surround sound. It would be the product to possibly rival my dspNexus 2/8. That is if you can import your own filters like Keith mentioned.

It would seem like a good move for miniDSP to allow that, either in this product or upcoming product. Their target market (majority) won't likely be the active crossover guys, but rather the HT guys, but if the solution can easily cover our needs as well then they open up to more users.

For me, this is interesting because it has XLR outputs. It looks like it has a volume control, can anyone verify that?

Yup it definitely has a master volume control that increases/decreases all channels equally. It will also have input device trim for source level matching.

 

[JohnnyNG]

With manual correction, state of the art depends on the user.

That's the thing - any money I saved on Dirac I'd have to use to hire you.

 

[welwynnick]

That's the thing - any money I saved on Dirac I'd have to use to hire you.

A lot of people use this guy, who IS for hire.

Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolver, Headphone Filtersets

We provide digital room calibration for stereo and multichannel. Software provider of audio convolver, plugin host, and headphone filtersets.

accuratesound.ca

 

[gnarly]

I think that's actually preferable in terms of FIR capability?

Seems a bit contra logical, but FIR capability is increased by using 48kHz vs 96kHz.
It's a matter of how much physical time does the filter have to work with.

Given that the number of taps/samples a FIR processor can handle is usually the same no matter what the sample rate the processor is running at,
the lower the sample rate, the longer the FIR working time..

 

[TurtlePaul]

I assume that everyone else sees this product name and the inevitability of a Tide8 and Tide4?

 

[Keith_W]

That's the thing - any money I saved on Dirac I'd have to use to hire you.

I'm not for hire. I write eBooks which I make available for free. If you take the time to read them, you too could be proficient in DSP.

Once you start making manual corrections, you will see that you have to make a lot of decisions. That's when you will begin to realize that software can't possibly make those decisions for you. Here is a very simple example: REW's timing measurement, which is automatic, can easily be fooled by reflections which are louder than the main impulse. Or by poor signal to noise ratio. You have eyes, you can examine the measurement, recognize where you went wrong, and take remedial steps to obtain a better measurement. Automated software can't do that. Either it throws up an error message or it will go ahead and try to correct it anyway.

This is why I spend so much space in the book emphasizing the need to take measurements correctly. It is important, even if you use automated software. Maybe even more important.

I understand it's an arcane subject, and not everyone wants to do it manually. But I can tell you it's very rewarding. You learn things about your system that you never knew. You learn what corrections work, and what doesn't. You will discover that you can make the measurement look perfect, but it might sound terrible. And you will wonder why. You learn what to correct, and what to leave alone.

 

[Lsc]

This will be a good processor to replace my XMC2. This or the AV20. $3500 is not a bad price given my other choices. Finally, I can move beyond Dirac Live. We will see how ART can help, I have 3 subs: 2 in front and 1 in back.