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miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

rocketale said:
One trade-off with the iPad/iPhone route is that device and the app need to stay on/running for the server to keep working. It is less “set and forget” than the Mac/Pi background-service approach and you’d need to keep the secondary device around. Both are valid depending on what you’ve got available.
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Fantastic work you’ve done! This really proves the concept.
But relying on a web server on another device seems a bit over complicated from a user perspective.
A proper iPhone/Android app would essentially be able to do the same thing without the need for the server. And a lot of what you’ve already done can be reused in that app.
 

Viking said:
Fantastic work you’ve done! This really proves the concept.
But relying on a web server on another device seems a bit over complicated from a user perspective.
A proper iPhone/Android app would essentially be able to do the same thing without the need for the server. And a lot of what you’ve already done can be reused in that app.
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Downloaded Xcode on my desktop computer and managed to get the code working (I cannot do programming but with help from Claude managed to do it - at least sort of) but making the app available to others and also myself via Apple App Store seems too costly. I know that I could run the app without publishing it to app store but the certificate expiry would be a nuissance. Naturally it would be good if miniDSP would make this available for us.
 
Hko said:


Downloaded Xcode on my desktop computer and managed to get the code working (I cannot do programming but with help from Claude managed to do it - at least sort of) but making the app available to others and also myself via Apple App Store seems too costly. I know that I could run the app without publishing it to app store but the certificate expiry would be a nuissance. Naturally it would be good if miniDSP would make this available for us.
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The cost seems to be $99/year for the Apple Developer Program, but no cost for actually publishing the app. A minuscule cost for any company.
It puzzles me that MiniDSP hasn’t developed the app themselves when the API is already there. But it opens up an opportunity for anyone interested in making a buck by publishing an app for a reasonable cost like $5.
 
Any chance the tide 16 could handle native dsd via the hdmi input from my SACD collection?
 
BJL said:
Moreover, what is the point to DSD when Dirac will not process it? Native DSD without room correction will undoubtedly sound worse than outputting PCM and applying Dirac calibration.
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To me, dsd contents tend to (but not all obviously, just better chance) be of good recording/mastering, so better sound quality not because of dsd itself. That means non native playback will achieve 99.99% of the audible benefits. DL makes a more obvious audible difference.
 
BJL said:
Moreover, what is the point to DSD when Dirac will not process it? Native DSD without room correction will undoubtedly sound worse than outputting PCM and applying Dirac calibration.
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I agreed. But I would want it because I have a small collection of SACD.
 
PristineSound said:
I agreed. But I would want it because I have a small collection of SACD.
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Me too but I would still play them and route it to the AVP, analog inputs for 2 Ch and HDMI for multi channel, to listen with ART. That’s only if the recording/mastering are good, otherwise it doesn’t matter.
 
peng said:
Me too but I would still play them and route it to the AVP, analog inputs for 2 Ch and HDMI for multi channel, to listen with ART. That’s only if the recording/mastering are good, otherwise it doesn’t matter.
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I do not believe you can apply DSP on DSD.
 
PristineSound said:
I agreed. But I would want it because I have a small collection of SACD.
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I have a couple dozen SACDs, they output PCM at 174.6 kHz (up to five channels) to the Tide, which of course, the Tide resamples to 48 kHz.. I can guarantee you that you will not hear the difference between that and DSD. As @peng pointed out, the general consensus is that the advantage of SACD is in the mastering.
 
BJL said:
I have a couple dozen SACDs, they output PCM at 174.6 kHz (up to five channels) to the Tide, which of course, the Tide resamples to 48 kHz.. I can guarantee you that you will not hear the difference between that and DSD. As @peng pointed out, the general consensus is that the advantage of SACD is in the mastering.
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I agree you will not hear any difference under normal circumstances.
 
peng said:
To me, dsd contents tend to (but not all obviously, just better chance) be of good recording/mastering, so better sound quality not because of dsd itself. That means non native playback will achieve 99.99% of the audible benefits. DL makes a more obvious audible difference.
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This is the same argument I make for records. Lots of the remasters are bad remasters. The records often have more dynamic range and better tonal characteristics despite higher noise, less channel separation, etc. Modern AD/DA isn't the barrier it was 20 years ago, where most units were either very expensive or pretty poor (on the A/D side in particular). Nowadays you can practically daisy-chain at-will with well-chosen devices and configuration.
 
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PristineSound said:
I do not believe you can apply DSP on DSD.
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You can with HQPlayer. The question is: why would you want to. It is extremely CPU intensive.

I know, because many years ago I tried doing it. I was misguided. It needs so much CPU that it brought my PC (i7-7600K) to its knees. We are talking about a gamer style PC with an nVidia card for CUDA cores here.
 
Keith_W said:
You can with HQPlayer. The question is: why would you want to. It is extremely CPU intensive.

I know, because many years ago I tried doing it. I was misguided. It needs so much CPU that it brought my PC (i7-7600K) to its knees. We are talking about a gamer style PC with an nVidia card for CUDA cores here.
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That's a beast of a program. I play around with the free trial and while I don't use my Ryzen 5800X3D/GeForce RTX 3060 Ti build for gaming much any longer it more than pulls its weight for audio. Hit play in Roon and listen to the fans ramp up, lol.
 
Can anybody confirm that the Tide16 can do 7.4.4 with front wides (no surround backs)? Manual shows wides being greyed out when there's no rear surrounds selected. It also doesn't show wides in a 7-channel layout. Surround backs are not possible in my room.

I was deciding between this and the Marantz AV 20 as an upgrade to my Denon X6700H, but it doesn't appear the Marantz supports my configuration either.
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johnmartmill said:
Can anybody confirm that the Tide16 can do 7.4.4 with front wides (no surround backs)? Manual shows wides being greyed out when there's no rear surrounds selected. It also doesn't show wides in a 7-channel layout. Surround backs are not possible in my room.

I was deciding between this and the Marantz AV 20 as an upgrade to my Denon X6700H, but it doesn't appear the Marantz supports my configuration either.
View attachment 552825
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Using the available configurations you are apparently correct. You can confirm this by downloading the Device Console from the miniDSP website, select "Template Devices" on the left, then select Tide 16 on the right, and you can simulate everything.

However, you might be able to trick the Tide into allowing you to do this by creating a speaker configuration that includes surround back, then use the Matrix Mixer to send the surround back to the regular surrounds (mixing those signals which is what would happen anyway), and then you will be able to add wides. These dependencies are based on what is in the speaker configuration, not the downstream matrix mixer.

I'm not sure what this would do to Dirac ART calibration. I suggest that you go to the miniDSP website, click on support, and at the bottom left click on "Submit a Request" and ask them if this will work. DevTeam will reply. I personally believe this will work, but I don't have the energy to create a preset and try it (sorry), but DevTeam will give you the definitive answer.

Tide is very flexible, but do check with DevTeam.
 
BJL said:
Using the available configurations you are apparently correct. You can confirm this by downloading the Device Console from the miniDSP website, select "Template Devices" on the left, then select Tide 16 on the right, and you can simulate everything.

However, you might be able to trick the Tide into allowing you to do this by creating a speaker configuration that includes surround back, then use the Matrix Mixer to send the surround back to the regular surrounds (mixing those signals which is what would happen anyway), and then you will be able to add wides. These dependencies are based on what is in the speaker configuration, not the downstream matrix mixer.

I'm not sure what this would do to Dirac ART calibration. I suggest that you go to the miniDSP website, click on support, and at the bottom left click on "Submit a Request" and ask them if this will work. DevTeam will reply. I personally believe this will work, but I don't have the energy to create a preset and try it (sorry), but DevTeam will give you the definitive answer.

Tide is very flexible, but do check with DevTeam.
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@johnmartmill - I think that I figured a workaround for Dirac Art. You would have to temporarily set up a pair of speakers as surround back. Do your Dirac measurements. Then, when designing filters, simply omit the surround back as supports throughout. EDIT: run calculations, export filter, then - Close Dirac. Shut down. Disconnect the dummy speakers, and then proceed as I suggested, assuming the miniDSP agrees it is acceptable.
 
Sharok said:
Can it decode Dolby family and dts MA or does it still accept PCM only?
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All Dolby from obsolete Dolby Surround & Dolby Digital through TrueHD and Atmos. dts from early lossy through MA HD and dts:X but not dts:X Professional. Upmixing Dolby Atmos and dts Neural:X

Encoded content is automatically upmixed to meet your speaker configuration (dts Neural:x up to 12 channels, Dolby up to Atmos) unless those options are deselected. PCM is left native unless Dolby or dts upmixing invoked (buttons on remote.)
 
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