miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

[BJL]

If you want something that just "works", there are so many other mass market products out there.

I'll repeat until I'm blue in the face: the Tide16 is a niche product and won't satisfy everyone (especially the "V" side of AV).

Slight issue with the just works comment, with current software (1.14.8) - Edit now 1.16.6 - the Tide "just works" just fine. I am definitely not a techie person, so if it just works for me, it will just work for anyone. There is one obscure bug that affects, but it has been reported, is in the changelog bug list, and no doubt it will be resolved. (channel assignment playback with Sony Japan non-standard 4.0 SACDs if you are curious.)

Believe that I am amongst @EWL5's "niche" for the TIde, so for anyone trying to figure out if they fit, here's my application:

Video playback optical media SD DVD through UHD 4K, HDR, Dolby Vision works great. Passes the video to the TV including HDR features (apparently HDR 10+, but I don't have a compatible TV so I can't say). Apple TV shows from time to time, no problem. Ditto on Dolby Vision & Atmos from Apple TV. No 8K I gather this is for gaming and would require using eARC, but I really don't know. If you want 8K look elsewhere.

Audio playback: Sound quality superb, I'm quite sure bench testing will confirm published specs (or exceed) in which case this AVP is top tier. It is 48 kHz as others have noticed, same as Atmos. If that bothers anyone, look elsewhere.
Implementation of Dirac Live suite inclucing ART is exemplary. Some complaints (not from me!) because miniDSP adheres to the Dirac requirement meticulously, i.e. no modification downstream, any changes must be addressed at the filter design stage. I believe Storm & maybe HTP-1 allows some limited changes downstream, not sure about other processors, you have choices if that's important to you.

Edit: there is a dialog (center channel) and bass (LFE) gain control on the remote which provides trim or increased gain prior to the Dirac block and apparently allows some modification. I have never tried this.

Edit - USB audio eight channels at 32 bits (I have not tested this yet)

Audio/video synch from sources connected directly (I never tried eARC) is near perfect or perfect.

Indication from the miniDSP that they worked closely with Dirac, and this processor appears to have been purposefully designed for Dirac deployment. Following the information and direction on the Dirac website, it appears that the TIde has no meaningful limitation on cross terms, whatever they are (someone commented that this is important) or any other aspect of Dirac processing.

Notice that the TIde implementation limits to four subwoofers, each with it's own output channel. Want more? Want to combine multiple subs on a single channel? Buy something else.

Other audio processing - look at the manual, there's a matrix mixer, 20 channel PEQ per output, crossovers, invert, delay, gain. I haven't touched any of that. Like I said, not a tech person.

For context: my configuration is 9.1.6, all ear level speakers (including front wide) are effectively full range floor standing speakers. Six SVS Ultra Elevations wall mounted for the heights. Hypex 252 (Buckeye) power amps. Single Rythmik F12 sub. With ART, more than adequate, in my opinion. Two UHD players and Apple TV connected HDMI inputs, turntable/phono pre via Toslink, Oppo as media player via Toslink.

I follow the miniDSP defaults and did the set up following the manual page by page. Only change to ART is removing the heights as support for the LFE. If I'm ever bored I might fiddle with it but, why mess with success?

It has a real on off switch that entire disconnects the processor from mains.

Hope this is useful for anyone considering the Tide.

 

[BJL]

In the UK no I don’t have air conditioning. I do have heating but I use it perhaps 3 months of the year.

That 100w is with all my fibre and WiFi infrastructure running plus an A rated Miele fridge freezer and everything else in standby and is what my house is consuming perhaps 16 hours out of each 24 when I’m asleep or at work.

In the summer my consumption is covered by solar + battery and the excess is sold back to the grid, in the winter some is pulled in from the grid.

Any increase in base load represents energy I’m not storing for use overnight or selling back to the grid.

A don’t yet have an electric car as due to the limited number of miles I do the embodied emissions due to manufacturing would be worse than running my existing ICE vehicle in to the ground then replacing it with electric when it is scrapped.

You are fortunate to live in a climate that doesn't require cooling!

As to the car, I don't entirely agree. My car after four years becomes carbon neutral (the time it takes to compensate for production carbon footprint). This may not be true of all vehicles. In the meantime I am not supporting the petro industry or spewing toxic exhaust, and after four years it is all positive.

Electricity where I live is solar generated with utility scale batteries, so I didn't install rooftop solar (which in any case is too expensive in the US!). I'm on a waiting list for community solar investment.

I'm jealous of your fridge, must be great! I have their washing machine.

At least now I understand your points. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Frunse]

Who pays for the Carbon footprint in Spain, Greek and France for the Forest burning every Jear happen???
And who pays for the Footprint off Ukraine, Russion War ???

Cars have an Catalyst. Should we build an Catalyst for Burnning Forests than....LOL

Carbondioxide is needed for all Flora, isn't ?!

 

[chelgrian]

You are fortunate to live in a climate that doesn't require cooling!

As to the car, I don't entirely agree. My car after four years becomes carbon neutral (the time it takes to compensate for production carbon footprint). This may not be true of all vehicles. In the meantime I am not supporting the petro industry or spewing toxic exhaust, and after four years it is all positive.

Electricity where I live is solar generated with utility scale batteries, so I didn't install rooftop solar (which in any case is too expensive in the US!). I'm on a waiting list for community solar investment.

I'm jealous of your fridge, must be great! I have their washing machine.

At least now I understand your points. Thanks for the explanation.

The UK energy mix is such that right at the moment up to 50% of the demand is met by gas turbine generation with the rest being a combination of solar, wind, nuclear and HVDC interconnects to other countries. Also due to the weird way the energy markets are regulated the price per kWh is effectively tied to the price of gas. There is also a lack of sufficient grid scale storage which means that wind is not made most effective use of.

 

[EWL5]

You are fortunate to live in a climate that doesn't require cooling!

As to the car, I don't entirely agree. My car after four years becomes carbon neutral (the time it takes to compensate for production carbon footprint). This may not be true of all vehicles. In the meantime I am not supporting the petro industry or spewing toxic exhaust, and after four years it is all positive.

Electricity where I live is solar generated with utility scale batteries, so I didn't install rooftop solar (which in any case is too expensive in the US!). I'm on a waiting list for community solar investment.

I'm jealous of your fridge, must be great! I have their washing machine.

At least now I understand your points. Thanks for the explanation.

Here are my thoughts as many folks have a similar opinion as you do concerning the world:

1) Every time you use something plastic, you are supporting the petro industry. Even if a refinery doesn't make the end product, they are creating the building blocks that feed a plant that does make the polymers and plastics we know and love. When was the last time you didn't use plastic or something synthetic?

2) My hesitancy in getting an EV is two-fold: lack of "cradle to the grave" accountability and how bad it is for the environment when one burns.

Even if you don't consider the carbon footprint when an EV is made (which you should), the process of recovering the heavy metals from EV batteries at reclamation facilities are again energy intensive and no one wants to talk about how much it costs or the additional carbon footprint, do they? A petro car's fuel is either used up or kept in a relatively stable state inside a tank, etc.

I was tasked with designing a scrubber for an EV company. They gave me the theoretical composition of the combusted gas once an EV battery burns. In addition to the heavy metals I've mentioned that will exist as PM in the combustion gas (Ni, Mn, Co, Li, etc.), there's a good dose of HF acid, HCN, in addition to CO2 and/or CO you would get from petro combustion. A burning EV is far more lethal and carcinogenic than a burning petro car (not to mention only a special division of the fire dept can handle EV fires).

I haven't even mentioned lack of range in an EV car, which is only 3rd on my list of hesitancies...

3) My thoughts on solar cells are similar to #2 (except for the fires). What's the cost of useful material reclamation once the cells can no longer capture solar power? Where does most of the waste go? Answer: it costs more to perform the recycling so many of them end up in landfills where many of the heavy metals can end up in ground water...

 

[Frunse]

That why i drive an normal Car and never wan't an EV !

Think what happen at an car crash if youre EV starts Burning no one could help you only special Teams with Special Equipment!!!

On normal Car i have an normal Fire extinguisher to help my self if something starts burning!

If an EV Batterie is burning you can only run away if you could after an crash LOOOL

Even if an EV has an little Crash (Airbags comes out) in Germany you couldn't drive away you need to park it on an special place, and the authority need to check if the Battery will get into a fire the next 2 weeks!!! And thats cost you also Money!!! Because only specialists alow to do so

 

[kyuu]

Can we get off this irrelevant and uninformed EV tangent?

 

[EWL5]

Can we get off this irrelevant and uninformed EV tangent?

Yeah, sorry! I get excited when everyone wants to be "green" but no one wants to pay the bill!

Getting us back on track for the the Tide16, does miniDSP offer any way to overcome the infrabass weakness (<20Hz frequency) in Dirac ART?

 

[BJL]

Yeah, sorry! I get excited when everyone wants to be "green" but no one wants to pay the bill!

Getting us back on track for the the Tide16, does miniDSP offer any way to overcome the infrabass weakness (<20Hz frequency) in Dirac ART?

What bug? I thought we can activate infra bass (I just haven't bothered.)

There is a new Tide16 feature - eight channel USB audio at 32 bits. Software version 1.16.6 with a promise to speed up boot time in the near future.

 

[EWL5]

What bug? I thought we can activate infra bass (I just haven't bothered.)

There is a new Tide16 feature - eight channel USB audio at 32 bits. Software version 1.16.6 with a promise to speed up boot time in the near future.

It's not a bug. Dirac ART does no correction below 20 Hz and is the same weakness regardless of hardware being used.

 

[da Choge]

There is a new Tide16 feature - eight channel USB audio at 32 bits. Software version 1.16.6 with a promise to speed up boot time in the near future.

This is great news. IMO, this makes the Tide 16 one of the best existing multichannel DACs for music. Guess most folks get it for its AVP capabilities, but I think miniDSP just bumped their game up to the next level with the addition of 8-channel USB. Can anyone who has installed this firmware give us an idea of how well the multichannel USB works?

 

[Viking]

I wish there was a working control app for iPhone and Android for the Tide16. Hope MiniDSP or someone else would use the new web socket API to develop one.

 

[welwynnick]

There is a new Tide16 feature - eight channel USB audio at 32 bits. Software version 1.16.6 with a promise to speed up boot time in the near future.

This is really great news, but I have a really stupid question.
I've read everything about this, and the description is always "eight channel USB audio at 32 bits".
It's never specified whether it's input or output or bi-directional.
I'm assuming it's only an input, but is there any possibility it could be used as an output, too?

 

[rocketale]

I wish there was a working control app for iPhone and Android for the Tide16. Hope MiniDSP or someone else would use the new web socket API to develop one.

First post here, long-time reader of this thread!

I actually built exactly this a few weeks ago. It’s a free web app that lets you control the Tide16 from your phone’s browser. Presets, volume, source switching, status, etc. You just run it on any computer or device you have on your home network, then open it on your phone like a bookmark.

I’m not a developer myself. Built it with some AI help, and tested it a lot on my own setup before sharing it. Others have been giving feedback too and new features have been added.

MiniDSP community thread: https://www.minidsp.com/community/t...m-any-browser-no-home-assistant-needed.24342/

GitHub: https://github.com/rocketale-1/tide16-remote

Happy to answer questions!

 

[welwynnick]

What a brilliant first post. Welcome to ASR.

 

[BJL]

This is really great news, but I have a really stupid question.
I've read everything about this, and the description is always "eight channel USB audio at 32 bits".
It's never specified whether it's input or output or bi-directional.
I'm assuming it's only an input, but is there any possibility it could be used as an output, too?

Per manual, USB audio is output from computer to Tide, i.e. one direction.

 

[Foggy1956]

First post here, long-time reader of this thread!

I actually built exactly this a few weeks ago. It’s a free web app that lets you control the Tide16 from your phone’s browser. Presets, volume, source switching, status, etc. You just run it on any computer or device you have on your home network, then open it on your phone like a bookmark.

I’m not a developer myself. Built it with some AI help, and tested it a lot on my own setup before sharing it. Others have been giving feedback too and new features have been added.

MiniDSP community thread: https://www.minidsp.com/community/t...m-any-browser-no-home-assistant-needed.24342/

GitHub: https://github.com/rocketale-1/tide16-remote

Happy to answer questions!

New to what you are doing, could you walk me through the process of getting this up and running? Tide 16 won't be here for a month but trying to figure things out.

 

[3ll3d00d]

does the ws api allow for configuring the dsp itself or just basic user control functions? or is there some (network accessible) api for that? or does it rely on the device console app like traditional minidsp devices?