miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

[jhaider]

I'm experimenting with sub placement with ART, so I'm curious about yours. You have two subs in each of the two front corners?

No. One in each of the four corners of the front wall.

 

[jhaider]

Maybe that is your standard for an immersive configuration. I have 9.1.6 and in my opinion, for some media the front wides are essential, and it does enhance ART.

Not “my” standard. 7.1.4 what pretty much all immersive content is actually mixed in.

 

[Sean_S]

No. One in each of the four corners of the front wall.

I have never seen subs in the upper corners of the front wall. I’m intrigued.

 

[airs]

Can the Tide16 store multiple speaker presets? With my x4800h, I have two presets - one is 5.4 (for video watching) and the other is 2.4 (for music listening). Each preset is calibrated separately with ART and has three profiles (default curve, baby bass boost, and big boy bass boost). Switching between the two presets (and the Dirac profiles in each) is fast with the Denon remote.

Can something similar be accomplished with the Tide16?

 

[BJL]

Can the Tide16 store multiple speaker presets? With my x4800h, I have two presets - one is 5.4 (for video watching) and the other is 2.4 (for music listening). Each preset is calibrated separately with ART and has three profiles (default curve, baby bass boost, and big boy bass boost). Switching between the two presets (and the Dirac profiles in each) is fast with the Denon remote.

Can something similar be accomplished with the Tide16?

There are twelve different presets available, and, if I recall correctly, 24 different slots for Dirac filters. Selecting a preset will select the Dirac filter with the same number automatically, e.g. preset 5 will load the Dirac filter in slot 5. Details in the manual.

 

[airs]

There are twelve different presets available, and, if I recall correctly, 24 different slots for Dirac filters. Selecting a preset will select the Dirac filter with the same number automatically, e.g. preset 5 will load the Dirac filter in slot 5. Details in the manual.

And the presets can each be calibrated independently and addressed by Dirac? Do you have to reboot the unit to switch speaker config?

 

[BJL]

And the presets can each be calibrated independently and addressed by Dirac? Do you have to reboot the unit to switch speaker config?

Truly you should open the manual at the miniDSP website, but no you don't have to reboot.

The manual explains explicitly what is saved with presets. And there is another feature, "scenes", that may be relevant, which saves different aspects. Just do a search on presets and scenes in the manual, and all will be explained.

 

[BJL]

Truly you should open the manual at the miniDSP website, but no you don't have to reboot.

The manual explains explicitly what is saved with presets. And there is another feature, "scenes", that may be relevant, which saves different aspects. Just do a search on presets and scenes in the manual, and all will be explained.

Hey @airs a little apology, I was kind of snippy with my RTFM answer, not my intention.

The Tide is complex device, and it is not like a regular AVR with everything predigested. I am very familiar with it, but only in the context of my own application. I referred you to the manual so that you don't get misinformed by me, and you can evaluate it in the context of your own application.

Sorry if my reply seemed dismissive. It's more dismissive of myself, as I am hardly an expert.

 

[Mort]

You aren't wrong to highlight how good that manual really is.

 

[Foggy1956]

There are twelve different presets available, and, if I recall correctly, 24 different slots for Dirac filters. Selecting a preset will select the Dirac filter with the same number automatically, e.g. preset 5 will load the Dirac filter in slot 5. Details in the manual.

One thing confuses me, and I've spent a lot of time in the manual. The Dirac slot matches the preset slot, yet there are 12 presets and 24 Dirac slots, what am I missing? My unit won't be here for another 6 weeks so I'm kind of flying blind.

 

[BJL]

One thing confuses me, and I've spent a lot of time in the manual. The Dirac slot matches the preset slot, yet there are 12 presets and 24 Dirac slots, what am I missing? My unit won't be here for another 6 weeks so I'm kind of flying blind.

I agree it is confusing and I don't have a filter in one of the higher numbered slot to investigate. There is a web application, accessible from your phone or computer, that gives access to additional features. I can see in the documentation of the api that there are ways to call specific Dirac slots. Someone created an app (using Claude) to create an good interface for this, I haven't tried it, and I doubt that I will, but if you go to the Tide community support board at miniDSP, you will see two topics, one is called Tide Remote and the other Unofficial Home Assistant Integration, take a look at what is there and maybe post a question to find out if the remote app or web controller access the additional Dirac slots.

This assuming that my memory is accurate on the number of DIrac slots!

If I'm correct, presets 1-12 are linked to Dirac slots 1-12 (with 1-9 addressable using the remote) and anything beyond that you need to use the web app or the remote app referenced in the topic. There are several people who have a strong interest in automation and access via phone or computer who will have a great deal of knowledge to share. I'm not especially interested in software and am almost totally ignorant on these under the hood features. For me, it is just about the audio.

Edit: FYI the API documentation is separate from the manual. URL in a posting with API in the title on the community board.

 

[Foggy1956]

I agree it is confusing and I don't have a filter in one of the higher numbered slot to investigate. There is a web application, accessible from your phone or computer, that gives access to additional features. I can see in the documentation of the api that there are ways to call specific Dirac slots. Someone created an app (using Claude) to create an good interface for this, I haven't tried it, and I doubt that I will, but if you go to the Tide community support board at miniDSP, you will see two topics, one is called Tide Remote and the other Unofficial Home Assistant Integration, take a look at what is there and maybe post a question to find out if the remote app or web controller access the additional Dirac slots.

This assuming that my memory is accurate on the number of DIrac slots!

If I'm correct, presets 1-12 are linked to Dirac slots 1-12 (with 1-9 addressable using the remote) and anything beyond that you need to use the web app or the remote app referenced in the topic. There are several people who have a strong interest in automation and access via phone or computer who will have a great deal of knowledge to share. I'm not especially interested in software and am almost totally ignorant on these under the hood features. For me, it is just about the audio.

I doubt that I'll need more than few slots, more just a spot of confusion in an otherwise very nicce manual. The matrix mixer also leaves me a little curious.

 

[Mort]

matrix mixer also leaves me a little curious.

It's key for many applications like testing subwoofers.

 

[Hko]

Can the Tide16 store multiple speaker presets? With my x4800h, I have two presets - one is 5.4 (for video watching) and the other is 2.4 (for music listening). Each preset is calibrated separately with ART and has three profiles (default curve, baby bass boost, and big boy bass boost). Switching between the two presets (and the Dirac profiles in each) is fast with the Denon remote.

Can something similar be accomplished with the Tide16?

This was my initial thought as well, i.e. that I would need different speaker setups for multichannel and stereo but this is not the case. ART works great with both multichannel and stereo using just one speaker configuration. You can have different ART presets for these configurations but I have not bothered with it as the results are great with just one preset.

Different speaker configurations are not stored in scenes neither presets and creating different speaker configurations is quite a tedious task and I am not sure where these would be stored for recalling/switching between but rest assured you won’t need them.

 

[BJL]

This was my initial thought as well, i.e. that I would need different speaker setups for multichannel and stereo but this is not the case. ART works great with both multichannel and stereo using just one speaker configuration. You can gave different ART presets for these configurations but I have not bothered with it as the results are great with just one preset.

Different speaker configurations are not stored in scenes neither presets and creating different speaker configurations is quite a tedious task and I am not sure where these would be stored for recalling/switching between but rest assured you won’t need them.

I agree completely, and even more so, there is no point to having a configuration with fewer speakers, as ART is always better with more speakers.

I suppose something like what @airs described could be done with the matrix mixer, but as you clarify, there is no point to it at all, though it is easy enough to create three sets of ART filters and assign each of those to a preset.

 

[airs]

I agree completely, and even more so, there is no point to having a configuration with fewer speakers, as ART is always better with more speakers.

I suppose something like what @airs described could be done with the matrix mixer, but as you clarify, there is no point to it at all, though it is easy enough to create three sets of ART filters and assign each of those to a preset.

My understanding is that measurements for surround sound are recommended to be done with the mic pointed at the ceiling (90 degrees calibration file), whereas for stereo it should be pointed at the mains. But perhaps what you are recommending is to measure at 90 degrees and let stereo be upmixed?

 

[4NZRyan]

Hi Team,
Can anyone sell the Tide16 or put me off it?, I'm on the fence about it, I currently have an Anthem AVM70 (running 7.2.4 with plenty on AMP power and Speaker wattage - PB3000 subs open port (but read perhaps I should run them closed in this small room...), which is pretty good, but I have a small room 410cmX360cmX240cm high, so bass is an issue, have lots of treatment in the room, but the whole ART sounds like the go, I know the Tide16 only has hdmi 2.0b which I'm ok with, but I cant really find any real reviews or too many 'This thing is great' posts, what is the general feeling about the Tide16, should I get one? or wait for something else?, thanks in advance... Ryan

 

[BJL]

My understanding is that measurements for surround sound are recommended to be done with the mic pointed at the ceiling (90 degrees calibration file), whereas for stereo it should be pointed at the mains. But perhaps what you are recommending is to measure at 90 degrees and let stereo be upmixed?

It has nothing to do with upmixing. This is an understandable misconception. Example:

I play back a stereo recording with ART active. What I hear, directionally, is the stereo recording. What is happening, objectively, is that all 15 speakers plus sub in my system are active. But 13 of them (plus sub) are not directly audible. They are providing support for the stereo speakers and doing that Dirac ART magic to neutralize the room and eliminate (hopefully) or reduce negative room interactions. Of course you can also upmix, but that is an entirely separate matter.

I call it "magic" because I do not have any knowledge of the underlying acoustic science, and some of is proprietary trade secret information. Easier just to say "ART magic."

So when you take measurements, you are not just measuring the individual speaker, but also that speaker's interaction with the room.

Thus all measurements for a Dirac ART installation must be made with the microphone at 90 degrees, without regard to whether you are playing back mono, stereo, Atmos or anything in between at any particular time, and one set of measurements is all that you need for all formats and filter designs. In my system, I have one Dirac filter set and I use it for all playback, all channel formats.

I'm sure that there are some folks here who are fluent in the scientific basis and might be able to help out with the theoretical underpinnings. I am only knowledgable about the practicalities.

 

[BJL]

Hi Team,
Can anyone sell the Tide16 or put me off it?, I'm on the fence about it, I currently have an Anthem AVM70 (running 7.2.4 with plenty on AMP power and Speaker wattage - PB3000 subs open port (but read perhaps I should run them closed in this small room...), which is pretty good, but I have a small room 410cmX360cmX240cm high, so bass is an issue, have lots of treatment in the room, but the whole ART sounds like the go, I know the Tide16 only has hdmi 2.0b which I'm ok with, but I cant really find any real reviews or too many 'This thing is great' posts, what is the general feeling about the Tide16, should I get one? or wait for something else?, thanks in advance... Ryan

What you can do is download the 14 day demo of the Dirac suite (including ART) for your computer, and make a temporary setup with your computer to play back and test ART to get an idea if what it does is something that you are interested in, before spending thousands more. I believe it only supports stereo plus subs, but it should give you a good indication.

Since you already have a well-regarded AVP, that is what I would do as the Dirac implementation on the Tide is exemplary, but that is only important if you find ART to be an enhancement. Unless of course you have money to burn, in which case buy the Tide.

 

[Mort]

Hi Team,
Can anyone sell the Tide16 or put me off it?, I'm on the fence about it, I currently have an Anthem AVM70 (running 7.2.4 with plenty on AMP power and Speaker wattage - PB3000 subs open port (but read perhaps I should run them closed in this small room...), which is pretty good, but I have a small room 410cmX360cmX240cm high, so bass is an issue, have lots of treatment in the room, but the whole ART sounds like the go, I know the Tide16 only has hdmi 2.0b which I'm ok with, but I cant really find any real reviews or too many 'This thing is great' posts, what is the general feeling about the Tide16, should I get one? or wait for something else?, thanks in advance... Ryan

I think you should seriously consider ART whether by this model or another AVR. ART is very effective with multiple subwoofers at reducing resonances.

The you get the added benefit that you get have separates with aimplification which perform better on paper (but probably don't beat an AVR audibly.)