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I don't think this is true, when using my Focusrite USB interface I have measured 8 channels (4 speakers & 4 subwoofers) without having to do any routing changes.
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miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD
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staticV3
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Sadly the Tide16 does not support MCH input via USB
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Bummer.
staticV3
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Perplexing really, as the miniDSP UDIO-8 exists.
You'd think that they'd treat their flagship AVP to at least the same tech
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I read somewhere on the miniDSP site that multichannel USB might be added later. Reason for only 2 channel support shall be to reduce the complications of different channel assignment via USB on different platforms.
They hinted that it wasn't something set in stone because it was software related, and had it working but.., so well stated as "might be....".
Yeah, that's a bummer, but I think I read earlier (in maybe this thread?) that MiniDSP may be able to institute MCh USB with a future update. I remember reading something like there were complications in coordinating MCh channel steering between HDMI and USB (kinda like Markstein indicated), but I'm too lazy to go and locate exact postings. And I believe miniDSP may have said something like it doesn't mean multichannel USB can't be enabled later with a future update or upgrade -- but that's a lot of "maybes". Multichannel USB input for the miniDSP Tide16 would be a definite plus over the Hyperion APR-16, even if it was only 8-channel (besides the significant price differential). Even the Audio Control Hyperion APR-16 doesn't have multichannel Dante input presently; it's only stereo.
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welwynnick
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I'd be very interested if the Tide16 offered a USB multi channel OUTPUT at some point in the future.
PristineSound
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What would be the use case?
welwynnick
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Ironically there's less justification with the Tide16 than with some other options because it appears to have have high quality DRC and DAC.
However it would support some of the things that are discussed in this thread and this thread and this thread and this thread and this thread .
The key is a device that accepts an HDMI input from any source and performs the decoding and immersive rendering to produce discrete digital audio channels.
My aspiration is a layered system architecture with each layer performing one function, avoiding compromise and excess cost.
The Tide16 would fit in layer 3 - decoding. The existing options are either unsatisfactory or unaffordable.
It also a good way into implementing a networked installation (AoIP), or the use of active speakers with digital crossovers.
If the Tide16 can support USB multi channel input with a software development, then maybe it's not such a stretch to have it work both ways.
One of the useful features of the AudioPraise VanityPRO is the optional USB output, used for feeding audio to a PC or microcontroller DSP.
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All we know is that they said they had it working but there were software related issues so they focused on other things and launch product without this feature. I would bet, based on their track record, it would eventually be updated, but they are not obligated to do it so it may never come. That's a better approach than others who promised but never delivered, or took years (e.g. some Anthem fans might till be waiting for Roon and DTX:X pro, but then fans don't complain, Lol)
welwynnick
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To be clear, do you mean they had multi channel USB input working, or output?
From my fuzzy recollection, I thought it was the former.
Is this the conversation you were referring to?
Either way, since the data transfer (whether incoming or outgoing) is expected to be with a computer of some sort, the computer will be the USB host, and therefore the processor will have to be the USB device. That's the way that the VanityPRO USB audio output works.
I noticed that the Tide16 also has a USB host connection. I wonder what that's for? I don't think it would be an input or output.
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Great question! To me, if the usb input works with multi ch signal input it would mean, or at least imply it could decode and output that same signal in multichannel, but I could be wrong.
PristineSound
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I see, that's quite of extras and edge cases from the mass. The Tide16 shows excellent measurements, so an external DAC wouldn't really be necessary unless you want to. If you want to use something like Dante, I imagine one has a really large home or are using some sort of active speakers that accepts AoIP.
I do wish the Tide 16 was Tide 36, so you can bi-amp a 9.5.6 setup with the built-in crossover.
welwynnick
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That's one of the reasons in favour of a digital audio output.
You could use an off-board DSP crossover with a 32 or even 64 channel audio interface. There are lots: Apogee, Antelope, AVID, Direct Out, Grace Design, RME, or Lynx.
I currently own an Anthem AVM60, which has the "communications noise" issue at volume settings near the max output level, which is very distracting during near silent passages in movies and series, when the volume is set high. I did calibrate my AVM60 to the Belgian movie theater standards, and to reach that level, I have to set the processor volume to -10dB.
At -10dB and using active Klipsch XF48 fronts, that noise is borderline audible and distracting when there's no audio content in a scene. Most surround content is however higher than that background noise.
My only "problem" with the Tide 16 is that all of my power amps, are currently using cinch inputs, and MiniDSP does not recommend using XLR to cinch for the main channels, except for the subwoofers.
According to the manual, XLR to cinch, pin 3 should not be connected to the ground:
I currently own some cables from enoaudio, where pin1 and pin3 are connected to ground at the XLR side. If I use this cable between a Tascam Model 12 and a power amp with cinch input, I do not get any noises. When I use my own XLR cable, with pin3 not connected to anything, I do get some hum.
However since the Tide 16 is truly balanced and has separate output hardware for + and -, shorting minus to ground may actually damage the output stages of this processor, and not shorting minus at all, may cause the issue I had with my Tascam, when using a cable with pin3 not connected to anything.
It's not a cheap gamble.
At -10dB and using active Klipsch XF48 fronts, that noise is borderline audible and distracting when there's no audio content in a scene. Most surround content is however higher than that background noise.
My only "problem" with the Tide 16 is that all of my power amps, are currently using cinch inputs, and MiniDSP does not recommend using XLR to cinch for the main channels, except for the subwoofers.
According to the manual, XLR to cinch, pin 3 should not be connected to the ground:
I currently own some cables from enoaudio, where pin1 and pin3 are connected to ground at the XLR side. If I use this cable between a Tascam Model 12 and a power amp with cinch input, I do not get any noises. When I use my own XLR cable, with pin3 not connected to anything, I do get some hum.
However since the Tide 16 is truly balanced and has separate output hardware for + and -, shorting minus to ground may actually damage the output stages of this processor, and not shorting minus at all, may cause the issue I had with my Tascam, when using a cable with pin3 not connected to anything.
It's not a cheap gamble.
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Hmmmm...
I also upgraded from an AVM 60 to the Tide16. With that I also replaced my amps with product from Buckeye. If you did that you would not be gambling.
However it would not be cheap.
I also upgraded from an AVM 60 to the Tide16. With that I also replaced my amps with product from Buckeye. If you did that you would not be gambling.
However it would not be cheap.
The Tide16 manual states that there can be "measurable" noise if you don't use XLRs, so it won't meet spec, which is 125 dB SNR. Measurable and audible are two different things. Still, I would not suggest any set up that miniDSP doesn't specifically endorse. The TIde16 is complex and sensitive. Mine is working perfectly, but I followed the recommendations in the manual to the letter. I would not connect the Tide to single ended equipment.
I also have Buckeye amps, which work just great with the Tide.
Perhaps you could sell your amplifiers and replace?
For my 2ch system I bought the Eigentakt mono flagships from Apollon (Purifi 1ET9040BA Eigentakt Premium Monoblock Amplifier PET1200M).
If I go for the Tide 16 which has a very respectable SINAD for a surround processor, I may as well go for more Eigentakt amps. I already own a NAD c298 which combined with two Klipsch Icon center speakers placed vertically as an experiment, almost completely outperform the active Klipsch XF48, except for the "body" and "weight" of the music, which the XF48 handle better. XF48 just sounds fuller, but less precise than Eigentakt with the passive variants of the Klipsch Icon series.
For the subs I do have two Klipsch THX amps, and a THX sub per amp.
Since I have 7.2.4 (so 11 channels that needs XLR coming from the Tide 16), I would need to invest in at least 9 additional channels, and preferably high sinad, but I don't need hundreds of watts per channel. That's probably a 10K euro investment. The c298 has 100dB SINAD, and I do consider this good enough for surround.
If I go for the Tide 16 which has a very respectable SINAD for a surround processor, I may as well go for more Eigentakt amps. I already own a NAD c298 which combined with two Klipsch Icon center speakers placed vertically as an experiment, almost completely outperform the active Klipsch XF48, except for the "body" and "weight" of the music, which the XF48 handle better. XF48 just sounds fuller, but less precise than Eigentakt with the passive variants of the Klipsch Icon series.
For the subs I do have two Klipsch THX amps, and a THX sub per amp.
Since I have 7.2.4 (so 11 channels that needs XLR coming from the Tide 16), I would need to invest in at least 9 additional channels, and preferably high sinad, but I don't need hundreds of watts per channel. That's probably a 10K euro investment. The c298 has 100dB SINAD, and I do consider this good enough for surround.
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