• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)

xykreinov

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
424
Likes
678
According to Hans Berkausen DSP processor comes before the DAC not after.
That's in regards to DSP software like EqualizerAPO, PulseEffects, etc. processed by a source player like a PC, not external DSP hardware like MiniDSP products. *Nope. I misunderstood.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. There are two stereo digital outputs that can operate at the same time.

EDIT: this is the routing diagram for all the SHD devices:

View attachment 132839
Oh nice, that's handy. I stand corrected
 
Last edited:

oursmagenta

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
161
Likes
187
Location
France
No it doesn't. Despite your obvious displays of Dunning-Kruger towards other members, I'll humbly explain. The DSP processor comes after the DAC in the signal chain, therefore its SINAD overrides the SINAD of the DAC. The SMSL M400's SINAD of 120 dB doesn't matter if the SHD's SINAD is 112. Further, MiniDSP claims the SHD Studio has 112 dB SINAD like the SHD, but a measurement by Amir would likely reveal the SHD Studio to perform worse than the SHD, given how MiniDSP previously inflated the SHD's SINAD.
Plus, the SHD Studio only outputs to 2 channels compared to the SHD's 4, and the Studio's need of an external DAC doesn't help space savings with its already chunkier form factor.
Putting the dsp after the dac would be one of the most unusual thing to do on earth. A DSP process digital data as its name indicates (Digital Signal Processor), it operates on bits.
This is the very reason why there is an ADC in the SHD: to digitized the input so that the DSP can do its job.
 

xykreinov

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
424
Likes
678
Putting the dsp after the dac would be one of the most unusual thing to do on earth. A DSP process digital data as its name indicates (Digital Signal Processor), it operates on bits.
This is the very reason why there is an ADC in the SHD: to digitized the input so that the DSP can do its job.
Ah, yeah, you bring up a good point. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that, in the case of digital inputs, the SHD recieves a digital signal, the DAC processes it and spits it out to analog, the ADC converts it back to digital, the DSP processes that digital signal, then spits it back out to analog. In the case of analog input, the signal bypasses the DAC (of course), heading straight to the ADC.
*Yup, wrong. I thought there was a general DAC separate from the DSP processor, when really the SHARC processor performs double duty.
But, regardless of the veracity of any of that, my main point that the SINAD of the ADC/DSP overrides anything from a higher performing external DAC in the chain, would still stand.
Also, it might be worth mentioning that, while ADC's are part of the chain in most MiniDSP products, SHD is unique in having one that can be accessed for use with microphone inputs as well.
 
Last edited:

alont

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
98
Likes
181
Location
Seattle, WA
Ah, yeah, you bring up a good point. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that, in the case of digital inputs, the SHD recieves a digital signal, the DAC processes it and spits it out to analog, the ADC converts it back to digital, the DSP processes that digital signal, then spits it back out to analog. In the case of analog input, the signal bypasses the DAC (of course), heading straight to the ADC.
But, regardless of the veracity of any of that, my main point that the SINAD of the ADC/DSP overrides anything from a higher performing external DAC in the chain, would still stand.
Also, it might be worth mentioning that, while ADC's are part of the chain in most MiniDSP products, SHD is unique in having one that can be accessed for use with microphone inputs as well.


What?? Why would a digital signal be converted to analog, then back to digital, then processed by the DSP before finally being converted back to analog? That makes absolutely no sense... what makes you think this way? AFAIK only analog inputs go through the ADC before being sent to the DSP. Digital signals are directly processed by the DSP, and then converted to analog. That's it.
 

navrsale

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
26
Likes
7
That's in regards to DSP software like EqualizerAPO, PulseEffects, etc. processed by a source player like a PC, not external DSP hardware like MiniDSP products.

Oh nice, that's handy. I stand corrected

His video is about the review of miniDSP
 

navrsale

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
26
Likes
7
Ah, yeah, you bring up a good point. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that, in the case of digital inputs, the SHD recieves a digital signal, the DAC processes it and spits it out to analog, the ADC converts it back to digital, the DSP processes that digital signal, then spits it back out to analog. In the case of analog input, the signal bypasses the DAC (of course), heading straight to the ADC.
But, regardless of the veracity of any of that, my main point that the SINAD of the ADC/DSP overrides anything from a higher performing external DAC in the chain, would still stand.
Also, it might be worth mentioning that, while ADC's are part of the chain in most MiniDSP products, SHD is unique in having one that can be accessed for use with microphone inputs as well.

Any filtration in the signal path will do damage because it will constrain the bandwidth, which will increase jitter. As Hans Berkyusen said, the reason he purchased miniDSP for his setup 1 was to avoid being terminated by his wife. He did not elaborate too much about it, but we can read between lines. His setup is in his living room, like 99% of setups out there. This means that he could not do even minimal acoustic treatments, because that would require something that wives are strongly against: putting strange things in the corners and on the walls, and God forbid, ceilings.

Hans did not have choice. He did what he could under the circumstances and added digital filters in the signal path. People who own very high end audio systems never do that. Devialet things that sold in $19k range I saw selling in $5k 10/10 conditions. Lyngdorf 6400 (or something like that), never got attraction, nor any other room correction based systems. Of course, in systems costing 1-2000 per component maybe room correction makes sense. In fact, I think if Hans replaced everything in his system except Audio physic speakers with Devialet 220 expert pro or mentioned Lyngdorf 6400, he would not notice any difference (btw, he is using AQ Robin Hood Zero cables, something that Amir debunked clear and loud *****pending time domain measurements, I am giving everybody benefit of the doubt. As of now, AQ claims that wrong measurements have been conducted on the cables).
 

xykreinov

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
424
Likes
678
What?? Why would a digital signal be converted to analog, then back to digital, then processed by the DSP before finally being converted back to analog? That makes absolutely no sense... what makes you think this way? AFAIK only analog inputs go through the ADC before being sent to the DSP. Digital signals are directly processed by the DSP, and then converted to analog. That's it.
Oh, I thought there was a separate DAC chip in addition to the SHARC processor. I figured the ADC and DSP were intertwined, because the SHARC DSP processor chip couldn't function alone as a DAC processing the full digital signal. But, I see now that it performs double duty as a general DAC as well. So yeah, what you said makes sense.
 
Last edited:

xykreinov

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
424
Likes
678
His video is about the review of miniDSP
Yeah, I'm dead wrong there. Figured that out in the last post.
Any filtration in the signal path will do damage because it will constrain the bandwidth, which will increase jitter. As Hans Berkyusen said, the reason he purchased miniDSP for his setup 1 was to avoid being terminated by his wife. He did not elaborate too much about it, but we can read between lines. His setup is in his living room, like 99% of setups out there. This means that he could not do even minimal acoustic treatments, because that would require something that wives are strongly against: putting strange things in the corners and on the walls, and God forbid, ceilings.

Hans did not have choice. He did what he could under the circumstances and added digital filters in the signal path. People who own very high end audio systems never do that. Devialet things that sold in $19k range I saw selling in $5k 10/10 conditions. Lyngdorf 6400 (or something like that), never got attraction, nor any other room correction based systems. Of course, in systems costing 1-2000 per component maybe room correction makes sense. In fact, I think if Hans replaced everything in his system except Audio physic speakers with Devialet 220 expert pro or mentioned Lyngdorf 6400, he would not notice any difference (btw, he is using AQ Robin Hood Zero cables, something that Amir debunked clear and loud *****pending time domain measurements, I am giving everybody benefit of the doubt. As of now, AQ claims that wrong measurements have been conducted on the cables).
It's odd how you trust both Hans and Amir so much at the same time. They have very different stances on audio. Hans does not believe in a substantial amount of objectivity that Amir does.
The damage done by filtration is absolutely minimal at best, and more a contstraint of the performance of the processor chip than filtration itself. Regardless, even the correction muscle offered by lower end DSP products like the MiniDSP 2x4 absolutely outweighs any "damage" done. Frequency response matters a lot more than unicorn dust "no-EQ purity" that has nothing to do with faithful reproduction of music.
If Hans truly cared about purity in the sense of faithful music reproduction, instead of miniDSP hardware, he'd use a small PC with software like EQAPO, PulseEffects, etc., and then feed the signal to an external, high performance DAC. That way, there would be no distortion from a poorer performing DSP chip. As you know, most desktop DACs easily outperform the miniDSPs. But, you'd need to get a miniDSP out of the chain to make use of the performance. The only downsides to the software route, compared to hardware like miniDSP, is potentially more inconvenience in needing a PC, and much higher audio latency. But, latency only matters if you're doing stuff like gaming or video editing. The vast majority of people just use DSP for listening to music or watching movies, in which case the latency is never high enough to matter.
 
Last edited:

Kachda

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
903
Likes
1,578
Location
NY
Since I have the older version of MiniDSP SHD with the perma-on USB host, I was looking for any kind of solution that does not involve me picking up my lazy ass form the couch to turn the amp off and on. This is the solution I came up with.

I used a 12V relay with Infrared learning. I configured the 'Power' button of the minidsp to turn the relay on (which sends a 12V signal along the trigger), and the 'Mute' button to turn off the relay (trigger loses power). My lazy ass thanks me.

This is the relay I used - https://www.amazon.com/MagiDeal-Cha...1&keywords=12V+relay+IR&qid=1622642365&sr=8-4

1622642410036.png
 

Attachments

  • 1622642277199.png
    1622642277199.png
    15.8 KB · Views: 117
Joined
Jun 3, 2021
Messages
22
Likes
10
What is the processing time of this unit with an analogue XLR source?
Would it be possible to play a live instrument with this and use PEQ and/or Dirac ?

EDIT: Guess that means no. Found it here post #729
 
Last edited:

nick-v

Active Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
195
Likes
289
Any indication on when/if this unit will achieve full Roon Ready Certification?

Seems to be taking forever!
 

tw99

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
467
Likes
1,069
Location
West Berkshire, UK
Any indication on when/if this unit will achieve full Roon Ready Certification?

Seems to be taking forever!

Last thing was they said they've submitted what they think to be the final version to Roon for testing and certification. So I guess either Roon are still testing it, or it failed and MiniDSP haven't mentioned that yet.
 

whitfc

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
27
Likes
0
How would you describe the character of the DAC on the SHD, warm, transparent ..? Appreciate your options.
 

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
3,658
Likes
5,276
At this level (and also when much cheaper) DACs do not have a sonic signature. If they do, and some admittedly do, they are snake oil products because they are not perfectly neutral and transparent.
 

Jayce996

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
54
Likes
16
Hello there,
my speakers are some old JBL XPL200 which are giving their best with the unfindable DX1 crossover. In the meantime, i'm using a Behringher DCX2496 mimicing what the DX1 was doing for biamping these beauties
knowing the fact that the DCX2496 is limited (by its name) to 24bits/96Hz leading to limiting all outputs which ever they are. I was wondering in replacing it by a MiniDSP SHD streamer in order to not limit the sound quality.

I tried to se if my EMOTIVA XMC2 would be able to do it directly on its own, but it is not really possible.
So i'm looking at one additional gear such as the MiniDSP SHD. But the thing is that there would be 2 Dirac live processor processing the sound, (My EMOTIVA XMC2 & MiniDSP SHD)
do you think this would be acceptable/feasible/compatible? or should i need another type of crossover (analog) ?

thank for your help
 

whitfc

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
27
Likes
0
Does the volume control apply to the digital out as well as the analog out? Does anyone anyone know whether it’s feasible to use an external DAC for the main speakers and the internal DAC for the subwoofer(s)?
 

nothingman

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
319
Likes
498
Location
USA
Yes, volume control applies to both. I suppose you could use that dual DAC scheme as long as the external one will pass through the volume just fine and doesn’t create any sort of latency mismatch issues (the latter of which you could address with a mic, REW, and the SHD software). Are you considering this because of sound quality concerns over the SHD’s DAC output?
 

whitfc

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
27
Likes
0
Yes, volume control applies to both. I suppose you could use that dual DAC scheme as long as the external one will pass through the volume just fine and doesn’t create any sort of latency mismatch issues (the latter of which you could address with a mic, REW, and the SHD software). Are you considering this because of sound quality concerns over the SHD’s DAC output?
No I just want to understand what my options would be if sound quality was an issue. I really don’t expect this to be the case though. I plan to get this device as soon as it gets Roon certification. God knows when that will be.
 

nothingman

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
319
Likes
498
Location
USA
Tell me about it. I have no idea what miniDSP are up to these days. There’s Roon. There’s the fact that Tidal Connect has been available for Volumio for two months but there’s no sign of it for the SHD series. We can’t even get them to allow for custom input names years after they said they’d work on it. Maybe they‘re working on something big, maybe they aren’t. We’d never know because they offer no information to their community and have just about strangled the life out of their own forum.
 
Top Bottom