Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)

[EJ3]

This is a new one, being accused of jealousy when all I’m saying is “keep the discussion on track.”

I don’t like the 3800 and 4800 being an AVR either, but the bottom line is AVPs are niche and expensive and you cannot find a Dirac ART capable AVP for anywhere close to as low of a price as a 3800/4800 AVR. So the mature thing to do is ignore the amps, in fact disable them altogether which Denon lets you do, and use it as an AVP.

It’s an interesting discussion! Think of what Denon is packing into those enclosures compared to miniDSP for the same money! It’s an intersection of innovation, tariffs (and politics writ large), and economies of scale between the big audio groups and small players like miniDSP. What’s not interesting is people coming out of the woodwork to say “but I already have amps.” Great, awesome, so do I, not the point.

Well, the point is more useless (and in my mind [and the lady of the houses mind] both ugliness and complexity) in the home and the system.
Now, I appologize for my comments, as that is just the way you have chosen to go and you are pointing out that it is a viable option.
But, (and maybe it's just me): It seemed to me that you were saying that a Denon or some such is a better way to go. It is not, it's just a different way to go.
Since we are talking expense: Something like the DENON is perhaps less expensive.

It is also not the point of this thread. So the discussion was already off track by it not being stating that it's an alternative to what is what the threads discussion is about.

I was trying to get the discussion back on track.

But, since we've gone this far off track:

In my home (first, it would not occur) but if it did, that big, hulking item, would result in my divorce,
which would be a most expensive way to go.

Unfortunately, as you've pointed out, it's difficult (and more expensive) to get these features another way, but that is becoming less true.
Someone else pointed out, no XLR.
To me, that is not an issue, nor has it ever been. If you can hear the difference between XLR and RCA, you are likely making some very long runs (I do a moderately long run [at my mother's house]: 1 meter to my mother's TT to a phono pre-amp & 4 meters from the line out to the line in on the main pre-amp) or there is a good chance that there is something wrong with your RCA connections or system.
On the other hand, if it's a personal preference, as it is not likely in most homes to be a necessity), it is also one of those things that adds expense.

Now, I would kindly suggest that we do get back on track to the

Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)​

and present (please) alternatives as just that: alternatives.

 

[EJ3]

True, if the tariffs weren't an issue. Are there any other alternatives?

I don't see how tariffs come into the conversation. (I have been dealing with them, since I was a teen & my parents where involved in bring containers of wine from Germany, Austria and Italy to the USA). Tariffs are just part of the cost of doing business and from time to time, they change. Either you pay for it (usually as an unseen part of the price at the retail level [they've been a part of international business long before I was born]) or you don't like the price and buy something else that comes from somewhere else.
They are simply part of doing business.
And, as a buyer, you want value for the money, so you may by something else from somewhere else. or not at all.
The total price is the issue, not the tariffs. The tariffs: they just are.

 

[dukeside]

I'm hoping the AV30 comes out next year and is a bit cheaper. That's probably what I would get if I could.

 

[nothingman]

Well, the point is more useless (and in my mind [and the lady of the houses mind] both ugliness and complexity) in the home and the system.
Now, I appologize for my comments, as that is just the way you have chosen to go and you are pointing out that it is a viable option.
But, (and maybe it's just me): It seemed to me that you were saying that a Denon or some such is a better way to go. It is not, it's just a different way to go.
Since we are talking expense: Something like the DENON is perhaps less expensive.

It is also not the point of this thread. So the discussion was already off track by it not being stating that it's an alternative to what is what the threads discussion is about.

I was trying to get the discussion back on track.

But, since we've gone this far off track:

In my home (first, it would not occur) but if it did, that big, hulking item, would result in my divorce,
which would be a most expensive way to go.

Unfortunately, as you've pointed out, it's difficult (and more expensive) to get these features another way, but that is becoming less true.
Someone else pointed out, no XLR.
To me, that is not an issue, nor has it ever been. If you can hear the difference between XLR and RCA, you are likely making some very long runs (I do a moderately long run [at my mother's house]: 1 meter to my mother's TT to a phono pre-amp & 4 meters from the line out to the line in on the main pre-amp) or there is a good chance that there is something wrong with your RCA connections or system.
On the other hand, if it's a personal preference, as it is not likely in most homes to be a necessity), it is also one of those things that adds expense.

Now, I would kindly suggest that we do get back on track to the

Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)​

and present (please) alternatives as just that: alternatives.

Uhhh…

I was not saying the Denon was the only choice for everyone. Of course it isn’t.

The connection here between miniDSP and Denon/Marantz is Dirac, something that’s a double-edged sword for miniDSP. They were (and remain) the cheapest way to get Dirac Live into a system. However, miniDSP did not progress with DLBC, and their policy for the past five years has been to not to say a single word about whether DLBC is even possible on their products or is in their pipeline.

That’s their choice, but times have caught up with them, to wit:

I don't see how tariffs come into the conversation. (I have been dealing with them, since I was a teen & my parents where involved in bring containers of wine from Germany, Austria and Italy to the USA). Tariffs are just part of the cost of doing business and from time to time, they change. Either you pay for it (usually as an unseen part of the price at the retail level [they've been a part of international business long before I was born]) or you don't like the price and buy something else that comes from somewhere else.
They are simply part of doing business.
And, as a buyer, you want value for the money, so you may by something else from somewhere else. or not at all.
The total price is the issue, not the tariffs. The tariffs: they just are.

Tariffs absolutely are relevant. The SHD used to be $1200, now it’s $1800. miniDSP being in HK puts them at a huge disadvantage. We have seen some increases, but +50% is enormous.

Meanwhile, the others have caught up and passed miniDSP on the tech. Denon/Marantz implemented DLBC and now they’re a whole extra step ahead with shipping ART.

SHD owners (and other miniDSP/Dirac customers) have been begging for any sign of life on DLBC for years and getting nothing. Now they want ART. Previously, any alternates were significantly more expensive than something like the SHD. Now that gap is closing so tight the hardware is the same price and it’s only the license that costs more (and $800 is nothing to sneeze at). People have also begged for a lowly 12v trigger and miniDSP never made that happen either.

We’re going to keep getting people showing up to this thread and others around the web saying “I wish my SHD had DLBC or ART” as they have for years. There weren’t great alternatives before but now there are and it was about time to point them out in this SHD thread.

 

[pollock0424]

I don't see how tariffs come into the conversation. (I have been dealing with them, since I was a teen & my parents where involved in bring containers of wine from Germany, Austria and Italy to the USA). Tariffs are just part of the cost of doing business and from time to time, they change. Either you pay for it (usually as an unseen part of the price at the retail level [they've been a part of international business long before I was born]) or you don't like the price and buy something else that comes from somewhere else.
They are simply part of doing business.
And, as a buyer, you want value for the money, so you may by something else from somewhere else. or not at all.
The total price is the issue, not the tariffs. The tariffs: they just are.

You really didn't add much to the conversation here. We all know that Taxes and Death are certain.

 

[EJ3]

You really didn't add much to the conversation here. We all know that Taxes and Death are certain.

That was/is the point:
It just is.
And that there really is no point in discussing it.
Apparently some like to babble about it.

 

[EJ3]

Uhhh…

I was not saying the Denon was the only choice for everyone. Of course it isn’t.

The connection here between miniDSP and Denon/Marantz is Dirac, something that’s a double-edged sword for miniDSP. They were (and remain) the cheapest way to get Dirac Live into a system. However, miniDSP did not progress with DLBC, and their policy for the past five years has been to not to say a single word about whether DLBC is even possible on their products or is in their pipeline.

That’s their choice, but times have caught up with them, to wit:



Tariffs absolutely are relevant. The SHD used to be $1200, now it’s $1800. miniDSP being in HK puts them at a huge disadvantage. We have seen some increases, but +50% is enormous.

Meanwhile, the others have caught up and passed miniDSP on the tech. Denon/Marantz implemented DLBC and now they’re a whole extra step ahead with shipping ART.

SHD owners (and other miniDSP/Dirac customers) have been begging for any sign of life on DLBC for years and getting nothing. Now they want ART. Previously, any alternates were significantly more expensive than something like the SHD. Now that gap is closing so tight the hardware is the same price and it’s only the license that costs more (and $800 is nothing to sneeze at). People have also begged for a lowly 12v trigger and miniDSP never made that happen either.

We’re going to keep getting people showing up to this thread and others around the web saying “I wish my SHD had DLBC or ART” as they have for years. There weren’t great alternatives before but now there are and it was about time to point them out in this SHD thread.

I feel that we are pretty much on the same page about the gear and the EQ technologies, at any rate.

I would like to see the newest version of ART adopted by more NON AVR type of gear.

(the only purchase that I will be making of a new piece of gear in the next 6 months will be from England and also possibly one [probably only wishful thinking] from Australia).
Yesterday I bought another amp, a Proton D1200 that is bridgeable, (I drove 4 hours each way to get it) and even though it is working fine now, will go through it thoroughly.
I need to get one more for my other sub-woofer.
Then get rid of a 2 or 3 of the NAD 2200's.

Tariff's have always been a bit of a problem, it's just that, at the moment, it's much more of a problem, particularly in some sectors.
It is likely that: this, too, shall pass.
But also likely for it to be NOT soon.
In the past, it generally hasn't been as high &
the spats between places did not usually last as long as it likely will this time.
At any rate, discussing them: as @pollock024 said: Taxes & Death are certain.
Since this is a given, no need to discuss them. (Unless someone has figured out how not to have them happen at all).

 

[Esprit]

XLRs would necessitate the Marantz AV20 AVP for $6,000. I love XLR as much as the next guy but that’s a big price to pay for them.

Many powered monitors only have balanced inputs.

 

[EJ3]

Many powered monitors only have balanced inputs.

And? Oh, that means that they won't be in my system, as I do not have any problems with RF or grounding issues that would warrant having balanced inputs.
But, if that's your needs (or wants), that is fine by me.
If, one day, I can miraculously hear the difference, then I'll start using them. Until then, probably not.

 

[markstein]

Many powered monitors only have balanced inputs.

In these cases, you could theoretically use:
- Adapter plugs from unbalanced to balanced (Neutrik) - cheap and simple
- A symmetrical amplifier like one of these (website unfortunately only german): https://funk-tonstudiotechnik.de/SYMM-VERST.htm
Use unbalanced inputs ans symmetrical outputs.
- An audio interface with sufficient number of AD/DA I/Os. Use unbalanced inputs with short cables and symmetrical outputs. This could even add additional features like PEQ, bass management/routing (e.g. when using something like a RME Fireface with Room EQ), however, adds another AD/DA loop. Technically not nice but should be sonically transparent.

All solutions are less expensive than spending 6k for an AVP with symmetrical outputs...

 

[EJ3]

In these cases, you could theoretically use:
- Adapter plugs from unbalanced to balanced (Neutrik) - cheap and simple
- A symmetrical amplifier like one of these (website unfortunately only german): https://funk-tonstudiotechnik.de/SYMM-VERST.htm
Use unbalanced inputs ans symmetrical outputs.
- An audio interface with sufficient number of AD/DA I/Os. Use unbalanced inputs with short cables and symmetrical outputs. This could even add additional features like PEQ, bass management/routing (e.g. when using something like a RME Fireface with Room EQ), however, adds another AD/DA loop. Technically not nice but should be sonically transparent.

All solutions are less expensive than spending 6k for an AVP with symmetrical outputs...

I have had good experience with adapter cables (But you must make sure that the configuration is PIN correct for what you are doing [in my case my RCA processor loop out of my preamp to the XLR only processor in, and then the XLR Processor out to the RCA in on my preamp]).
See the lower row of RCA's, the left most 4 are for an external processor (2 for out & 2 for back in).

 

[rvsixer]

In these cases, you could theoretically use:
- Adapter plugs from unbalanced to balanced (Neutrik) - cheap and simple...

Adapter plugs (at least all the ones I possess) will tie signal ground and chassis ground together on both ends (introducing ground loop and lowered CMR possibilities). Best to instead use adapter cables that do not do this (refer to section 4.5 of https://www.hypex.nl/media/c8/3d/26/1648383450/Application note Legacy pin 1 problems.pdf).

I made my own quad star cables per the diagram in the referenced Hypex article, and can indeed confirm no audible hum, noise, etc. And measured in room response is unchanged using either RCA->RCA vs. RCA->XLR from AVR to amp.

All solutions are less expensive than spending 6k for an AVP with symmetrical outputs...

Agreed . XLR is ultimate, but I could just not justify the added cost so went with non-XLR AVR. No regrets so far.

 

[Esprit]

And?

I understand my English is "basic," but "Only" means only.
I, and I'm not the only one on this forum, use monitors that only have balanced inputs.
Happy holidays to you.

 

[Esprit]

All solutions are less expensive than spending 6k for an AVP with symmetrical outputs...

But I am NOT interested in an AVR regardless of its price

 

[EJ3]

I understand my English is "basic," but "Only" means only.
I, and I'm not the only one on this forum, use monitors that only have balanced inputs.
Happy holidays to you.

I was born not too far from you: Salzburg, Austria. Due to travels when I was learning to speak young, at different points in time, I spoke only German or only English, as I forgot the other language completely and had to relearn it. My Austrian mother learned English in England, so that it is different and she speaks German & Italian.
I did not elaborate well with my question "And?".
I was wanting to know if you felt that there was an actual benefit of balanced inputs for home use AND what they might be.
I have run radio stations and sound for bands over the years and (in my experience) balanced has only been better if the cable run was longer that what you would do in the majority of homes. But others may have different experiences. So I'm curious as to at what point that balanced actually becomes the best way to wire something.

 

[Esprit]

I was wanting to know if you felt that there was an actual benefit of balanced inputs for home use AND what they might be.

Good morning to you,
I have never referred to the advantages of balanced connections (although here in Italy there are mobile phone transmitters on many buildings and I have one less than 10 meters from me, furthermore I have long cables well over 5 meters and I add that in the 70s during my high school days I was "owner" together with other friends of a private radio station) but I have always written that I use (probably also the next speakers...) powered monitors that have ONLY balanced inputs...

This 3ad has derailed compared to the object because we have reached the point where it is better to buy an AVR, NOT use its amplification section and use RCA-XLR adapters...

 

[EJ3]

Good morning to you,
I have never referred to the advantages of balanced connections (although here in Italy there are mobile phone transmitters on many buildings and I have one less than 10 meters from me, furthermore I have long cables well over 5 meters and I add that in the 70s during my high school days I was "owner" together with other friends of a private radio station) but I have always written that I use (probably also the next speakers...) powered monitors that have ONLY balanced inputs...

This 3ad has derailed compared to the object because we have reached the point where it is better to buy an AVR, NOT use its amplification section and use RCA-XLR adapters...

The only unusually long run that I have is 3 meters (phono preamp line out to a preamp line in. The only place that I might need to run XLR adaptors would be my processor loop (and those might be 1/3 of a meter).
Cell phone signal transmitters: I'm far enough away from them that (depending on conditions) I may (probably) have to leave my property to use a cellphone. It suits me. I'm also the type of person who hangs a snake horizontally on the entrance gate to keep company down (birds will eat on the snake until it is just a skeleton but they won't touch an eel). I am also the last place on the power grid, it does not expand past my home. (The red truck is mine, the black car, the boats and the RV are visitors). The second picture is from the side of the house where the boats are toward where the first picture was taken.

 

[nothingman]

You need a diary, my man.

 

[EJ3]

You need a diary, my man.

Why?
So that I can write down that when I saw this, I was mowing the lawn?:

I only need a calendar to keep track of Dr. appointments (there are so damn many of them these days [for me, anyways]).
Because, at least at this point, I don't need the calendar to have dates to look forward to:
It's a pain in the butt because it prevents my wife & myself from doing our normal, several months at a time, traveling.

 

[EJ3]

You need a diary, my man.

Unfortunately I did not do as my mother & do a diary.
But, fortunately she also kept her father's 9.5 MM film home movies from all the way back to his (and my grandmother's) 1931 weeklong snow skiing wedding and honeymoon in 1931. It has now all been digitized, something that I am hoping to do with my music that I have from my father's born date in 1927 (what his mother was listening to up to now).