pollock0424
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True, if the tariffs weren't an issue. Are there any other alternatives?Like maybe a miniDSP SHD
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Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)
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tmtomh
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Depending on your specific needs and particular range of inputs, outputs, and features you want, MiniDSP has some configurable options on its less-expensive components that might get you what you would need out of an SHD but for less money.
nothingman
Senior Member
Hopefully we’re not too far off from that time, now that Denon/Marantz have launched ART for all of their Dirac-capable units.
Even then, one really has to ask whether miniDSP can be competitive. The SHD is $1800 and only comes with Dirac Live, which is two steps short of ART, so even if they launched the license (after years of doing jack squat for DLBC) or even a whole new revised unit, it’s going to cost considerably more.
Meanwhile, for the same $1800, Denon will sell you an entire full size 9.4 AV receiver (AVR-X3800H), and then the ART bundle is $800 on top of that. Yes, miniDSP offers something different in terms of granular control of PEQ and better ADC and DAC, but… there’s no arguing you can do a lot more with the Denon and if you’re only using it as a preamp then you don’t have to worry about the power amp performance.
nothingman
Senior Member
You must have missed the part where I said as much. Similarly, I have a NAD C298 for my mains and have no need for the receiver’s amps.
The point is for $1800 you can have a full 9.4 AV preamp that is upgradeable to ART in your home today, or you can have the SHD and a prayer to miniDSP that will fall on deaf ears.
True, the tariffs were voted in by US voters, and have certainly curtailed any miniDSP products I was interested in. I personally don't like the streamer in the SHD at all (gave up on it a few years ago, have not revisited to see if its improved), so would get a Flex and use a streamer of my choice (would likely be less expensive all around than the SHD even with tariffs, check deercreekaudio where they provide a OTD price).
Ditto for the SHD.
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Couldn't agree more with this. I used to have separate AVR and 2-ch systems. After getting the Denon in my new HT build (with carefully chosen and located speakers/MLP etc., room treatment, A1 Evo RC, etc.), it became immediately apparent it blew any of my two channels systems away - so all that was sold off.
Given external amps were a given in my case, I opted for the 4800 as it provided double the highest clean preamp output voltage compared to the 3800 (a full ~2V instead of ~0.9V).
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SHD does not have an internal amplifier and you can connect the analog outputs to the inputs of powered speakers…
Again true, but missing your point. You can run this exact same configuration with either the SHD or the Denon (right down to disconnecting its preouts from its main amps).SHD does not have an internal amplifier and you can connect the analog outputs to the inputs of powered speakers…
A lot closer now since on the Denon, Acoustix RC allows complete user customization of EQ.
And for those of use who actually have many amps (6 NAD 2200's & 2 NAD 2100's live in my home).
nothingman
Senior Member
It means that you only need a pre-amp (perhaps the Denon's, perhaps else) but not an AVR with it's not worth a damn amplifiers. I owned a Denon AVR once, expecting that I might want to downsize by selling some of my amps. The Denon is long gone. The amps remain.
How many amps one has is not the point. Not using an AVR's amps is at least part of the point and innovative thinking is another part.
Your jealousy of people who have figured those things out and are working further on things, along with your name indicating your wonderfully inventive thinking, seem to be your own point, for you alone.
nothingman
Senior Member
This is a new one, being accused of jealousy when all I’m saying is “keep the discussion on track.”
I don’t like the 3800 and 4800 being an AVR either, but the bottom line is AVPs are niche and expensive and you cannot find a Dirac ART capable AVP for anywhere close to as low of a price as a 3800/4800 AVR. So the mature thing to do is ignore the amps, in fact disable them altogether which Denon lets you do, and use it as an AVP.
It’s an interesting discussion! Think of what Denon is packing into those enclosures compared to miniDSP for the same money! It’s an intersection of innovation, tariffs (and politics writ large), and economies of scale between the big audio groups and small players like miniDSP. What’s not interesting is people coming out of the woodwork to say “but I already have amps.” Great, awesome, so do I, not the point.
nothingman
Senior Member
XLRs would necessitate the Marantz AV20 AVP for $6,000. I love XLR as much as the next guy but that’s a big price to pay for them.
To be clear, I don’t fully understand why there isn’t a one single downmarket AVP from Marantz/Denon. They won’t sell a ton of them, but with their production capability it would seem easy enough to do. If they can produce the 3800 for $1800, would love to see what they could do stripping out all the amp hardware and replacing the speaker terminals with XLR. That would have to save a boatload of materials cost for them.
It's clever marketing.
People who want an AVP and XLR seem to be willing to pay the premium.
