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Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
I bought the SHD 4 months ago (NEO3) and am still waiting for Roon anything to work with anything over 16 bits.
The NEO3 is supposed to compatible replacement for the older processors but, apparently not since the Volumio software is not available for the NEO3 hardware.
- Rich
The NEO3 is supposed to compatible replacement for the older processors but, apparently not since the Volumio software is not available for the NEO3 hardware.
- Rich
Hi Koos,
Unfortunately we can't provide a timeline but our team, Volumio and Roonlabs are indeed working on it..
Hoping this info helps and feel free to contact us if you have further questions.
Best Regards
miniDSP DevTeam
Hi
I'm considering the SHD to be connected to my NAD C658, which was a big disappointment. I also have a Yamaha RX-A2070 AVR. The C658 has both analog and digital inputs. The analog inputs can be set to "analog bypass" and fixed volume.
My questions are:
1. Does Dirac live processing affects both analog out and digital outs of the SHD?
2. Can both analog and digital outs work at the same time? I want to connect the SHD analog out with variable volume to the C658 with Dirac filters active (no subs) and at the same time connect digital out to Yamaha digital in with volume fixed and Dirac filter applied as well (like the SHD studio).
3. Does Volumio support MQA and DSD decoding on the SHD?
4. Any progress on the Roon certification?
Thanks
I'm considering the SHD to be connected to my NAD C658, which was a big disappointment. I also have a Yamaha RX-A2070 AVR. The C658 has both analog and digital inputs. The analog inputs can be set to "analog bypass" and fixed volume.
My questions are:
1. Does Dirac live processing affects both analog out and digital outs of the SHD?
2. Can both analog and digital outs work at the same time? I want to connect the SHD analog out with variable volume to the C658 with Dirac filters active (no subs) and at the same time connect digital out to Yamaha digital in with volume fixed and Dirac filter applied as well (like the SHD studio).
3. Does Volumio support MQA and DSD decoding on the SHD?
4. Any progress on the Roon certification?
Thanks
1. Yes, the 4 output channels are cloned, you get the same output analog and digital.
2. They always do work at the same time. You can't have fixed volume outputs, though. So that's the only part that can't be done, about what you wrote. Dirac is either on or off for all outputs.
3. I think the answer is no to both. MQA is not supported (but you can render in Roon backend). DSD isn't supported afaik, since the unit's DSP runs 96Hz internally.
4. Still waiting for it, it's being mentioned from time to time in communication from MiniDSP (even yesterday iirc).
The SHD and NAD C658 are competing against each other in the same space to do the same job. Any reason you need to have both?
I would keep the SHD and sell the NAD C658. If MiniDSP never delivers on say Roon, then buy a source that supports it and just feed it into the SHD's digital input.
An SHD and an AVR have good reason to work with one another, but not really with the NAD C658, unless the NAD is acting as your digital source.
The NAD has trigger in/out but does not have 4 DAC channels with PEQ that make the SHD actually unique.
Now, if the NEO3 hardware supported Roon, it would be a finished product.
- Rich
nothingman
Senior Member
I want to bring up the whole “leave 10db for Dirac” thing that keeps coming up and that I discussed in some earlier posts (each a different link), but that I can’t edit because they’re too old.
I was wrong, and @Hayabusa was exactly right in this post. The SHD won’t clip unless you push the analog out past 4V on the XLR outputs, which you basically aren’t going to do. In my defense, this became something of conventional wisdom and is referred to regularly, and the miniDSP manual makes this hard to understand. (Bottom of page 79)
After discussing my concerns with Deer Creek Audio and my own testing: the SHD has plenty of output voltage for any power amp and it won’t clip unless you push the analog section past its 4V max output, and that has nothing to do with Dirac per se.
This is easy to monitor with the output section of SHD’s desktop software. Dirac operates in the 32bit floating point digital domain and it can comfortably boost frequencies without us worrying about leaving it a magical 10db of headroom on the master volume (or elsewhere on the I/O settings). You are not going to clip in the digital domain, and if you somehow do, it would be very obvious at any SPL.
You can clip the SHD at the analog ouputs, but again, you’d have to push more than 4V out of the balanced outputs which would be out of the question on a typical 26-29db gain amp. And that doesn’t really have anything to do with Dirac. The digital signal hits the DAC with all of your Dirac/PEQ/crossover settings safely included, so from there all you have to do is watch the desktop’s output meter on a given channel which is a representation of the analog domain.
On something like the NAD C298 power amp with variable gain, if you did drop the gain all the way to the bottom you might clip the SHD’s analog output trying to deliver enough signal into what’s become a brick wall, but again, keep an eye on the output meters to properly set the C298’s gain.
Just wanted to clarify since I would hate for my bad information to derail anyone in their pursuit of the right piece for their system. I think miniDSP should think harder about how they phrase things, but I’m thankful for folks like George who set my straight.
I was wrong, and @Hayabusa was exactly right in this post. The SHD won’t clip unless you push the analog out past 4V on the XLR outputs, which you basically aren’t going to do. In my defense, this became something of conventional wisdom and is referred to regularly, and the miniDSP manual makes this hard to understand. (Bottom of page 79)
After discussing my concerns with Deer Creek Audio and my own testing: the SHD has plenty of output voltage for any power amp and it won’t clip unless you push the analog section past its 4V max output, and that has nothing to do with Dirac per se.
This is easy to monitor with the output section of SHD’s desktop software. Dirac operates in the 32bit floating point digital domain and it can comfortably boost frequencies without us worrying about leaving it a magical 10db of headroom on the master volume (or elsewhere on the I/O settings). You are not going to clip in the digital domain, and if you somehow do, it would be very obvious at any SPL.
You can clip the SHD at the analog ouputs, but again, you’d have to push more than 4V out of the balanced outputs which would be out of the question on a typical 26-29db gain amp. And that doesn’t really have anything to do with Dirac. The digital signal hits the DAC with all of your Dirac/PEQ/crossover settings safely included, so from there all you have to do is watch the desktop’s output meter on a given channel which is a representation of the analog domain.
On something like the NAD C298 power amp with variable gain, if you did drop the gain all the way to the bottom you might clip the SHD’s analog output trying to deliver enough signal into what’s become a brick wall, but again, keep an eye on the output meters to properly set the C298’s gain.
Just wanted to clarify since I would hate for my bad information to derail anyone in their pursuit of the right piece for their system. I think miniDSP should think harder about how they phrase things, but I’m thankful for folks like George who set my straight.
wgb113
Active Member
Thanks for clearing that up @nothingman both here and in the NAD thread...puts the SHD back on my list of potential preamps.
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The miniDSP SHD at work... Dom Brown in his studio at his home during the lockdown.
Dom Brown, lead guitarist for Duran Duran, has performed live or in-studio with artists and producers from Duran Duran to Mark Ronson, and Justin Timberlake to Liam Gallagher of the rock band Oasis.
Dom Brown, lead guitarist for Duran Duran, has performed live or in-studio with artists and producers from Duran Duran to Mark Ronson, and Justin Timberlake to Liam Gallagher of the rock band Oasis.
Hello, I'm a newbie here, so I say sorry in advance for any topic already discussed.
I'm trying to figure out what the proper gain level should be on my phono setup, before the signal enters in the RCA input of my Minidsp SHD for the A/D conversion.
Actually, my current setup has a 0,3 mV cartridge, paired with a +66 dB gain phono.
These two figures should produce a nominal output of almost 600 mV.
Anyway with music signal, is not infrequent to deal with recorded music showing a +XX dB output. Think about (for example) at the tracking test of HiFi News Test Record, they start from +12dB until +18dB. A +12dB added would increase the phono output until almost 2,5V.
Now, I see from the SHD datasheet that the RCA analog inputs have a 2V sensitivity. Should I assume that any signal above that level would produce clipping? I am asking this because here and there I'm hearing what I think is a tad of distortion, but after a lot of efforts, still I cannot address the cause (I think my rig is alright).
The problem is that unlike the C658, you cannot integrate the SHD into an existing AVR and still use the SHD as a main channel processor. With the C658, I can set the analog input to fixed volume. It's no possible with the SHD unfortunately
The analog inputs are also available with a 4 V maximum input through balanced connectors. If your "head amp" is already clipping, either input will produce distortion.
Does the offense occur at any gain setting?
https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-SHD.pdf
I am not super well versed in vinyl setups but I imagine that the elevated levels on the test record would be more of an issue for your cartridge than anything else. You can look at the SHD input meters and see if you are coming close to 0 dB (clipping) when listening, I imagine you are nowhere close on real music.
Michael
Thanks for the answers.
Actually my phono preamp is a Lehmann Black Cube Decade and it's the only external source of my setup. It features 56 or 66db gain for MC cartridges. But 56 is way too low for my Dynavector DV20x2l or Denon DL103. I actually would like to know if the "2V RCA input" still provides some headroom.
Do you mean that an RCA to XLR cable would be enough to do the trick?
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I think the best, clearest answer will come from the MiniDSP devs, although their responses can be slow in coming.
****
I'm out of my depth, here.
It appears that the balanced inputs have more headroom.
Cheap enough to test the theory.
I'm sure there are other (cheaper) options available, but here's an example:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-rca-to-xlrm-adapter-cable
nothingman
Senior Member
Hi @Robbie — I would not worry about this setup. .3mv cart with 66db phono gain over RCA is very conventional, as is 2V max on RCA input. There’d be a lot of people out there with an issue if this caused problems.
Don’t read into the +12-18db gain stuff from the test records from an output voltage perspective. That’s to test your tracking and the +12db track does not turn your cartridge into a 2.5V cart like you suggest. Just think of the resulting voltage if someone took a hot MM cartridge like a 2M (5.5mV nominal, but they have been measured in the 7-8V range in the real world), and played the 18db test track into a conventional 40db phono stage (assuming baseline 5.5mV, +58db would be 4.37V, completely bonkers phono output voltage over RCA or XLR) — the test track would be useless for its intended purpose.
If anything, with 600mV nominal output, you might find yourself adding a bit of gain to the output section of the miniDSP desktop plugin. Conventional line level preamps often have ~12db of gain as standard, applied at the top end of the volume control, but that isn’t the case with a digital preamp like the SHD. If you leave it at default settings the most the SHD will pass through to the power amp is the voltage it receives (ignoring Dirac and PEQ for a second). So if that signal is too quiet (depending on power amp sensitivity, power output, and speaker sensitivity) then try adding somewhere around 8-16db of gain (to taste) to get the output you want.
I have a whole post on this thread on how it is possible integrating the SHD with an AVR. When running in HT, you fix the SHD's volume and make it a slave to the AVR. When running stereo, you can still use the AVR as the main processor, or use one of the digital inputs on the SHD to make it the main processor. I don't see how the NAD has an advantage.
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