miniDSP SHD only does 2 channels of Dirac. I want 2 subs. Options?

[Ultrasonic]

But then how do i get my tv streaming content calibrated?

You had me interested until you said "meaurements using REW" I have no interest in spending multiple lifetimes learning and fiddling with REW. I want to hook up a mic, press a button for calibration, wait for calibration to finish, unplug the mic, then just listen. I have no interest in doing one smidgen more.

Which is totally fair enough. miniDSP hardware is powerful in terms of the functionality it gives users but I always stress it's not plug and play, and so definitely not for you. The challenge you'll have is whether there are any stereo products that will do what you want. Potentially Trinnov hardware but it's very expensive.

(I like the more manual approach as it gives me full control. This will likely appeal to some others here given the nature of this forum but it's definitely not mainstream.)

 

[marked sound]

Really? I say goodbye now...

If it's something that even a 95 year old granny could perform easily, then I'm intetested. If not, then I thank you for your time sir.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Now you're just being silly. If you've already hooked up the mic for the Dirac calibration it will take all of ten minutes longer to do two sweeps in REW ...

Actually no, what I was describing will take significantly more time and understanding than just taking two REW sweeps. (We're talking independent measurements of each speaker and sub, with a consistant timing reference; looking at the amplitude and phase responses to select appropriate crossover filter frequencies and types; and optimisting time delays.)

 

[Ultrasonic]

No, the C658 has four independent channels of Dirac calibration. Two mains and two subs. Which is why it is precisely the device the OP is dreaming of except he seems to be married to his existing DAC for some as yet undisclosed reason.

Does the C658 now definitely allow time delays to be applied to the main speaker outputs to optimise subwoofer integration? I think that the last time I looked into this that it did not, but I may be misremembering or it may have changed.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Having a very quick look, the following link states that the C658 does not have DLBC capability and so I suspect will not do what the OP wants.

Dirac Live - NAD Electronics

Dirac specializes in digital sound optimization solutions. Whether you’re watching a movie at home, relaxing with headphones or using your mobile device as a makeshift boombox, audio quality can make or break the experience.

nadelectronics.com

 

[Geertidow]

All DSP I know is too difficult for my own 91 year old grandmother.
I think when (if) she turns 95 that will still be true.

 

[bluefuzz]

Does the C658 now definitely allow time delays to be applied to the main speaker outputs to optimise subwoofer integration? I think that the last time I looked into this that it did not, but I may be misremembering or it may have changed.

As far as I remember it's always been able to do this but I may be misunderstanding what you mean. Dirac (on the C658) does adjust the impulse response of the mains and sub(s) automatically relative to each other. Or you can choose to disable this feature.

 

[marked sound]

Which is totally fair enough. miniDSP hardware is powerful in terms of the functionality it gives users but I always stress it's not plug and play, and so definitely not for you. The challenge you'll have is whether there are any stereo products that will do what you want. Potentially Trinnov hardware but it's very expensive.

(I like the more manual approach as it gives me full control. This will likely appeal to some others here given the nature of this forum but it's definitely not mainstream.)

If it is something even a 95 year old granny can figure out, then I am interested. If it requires even somewhat of a steep learning curve, then I am not interested.

If someone came out with a device that does room correction to the same sophistication of those 13.2 AVR receivers, but geared it just towards people with just 2.2 HiFi systems, I suspect that they would make a fortune. There are plenty of people out there with high end amps (like Electrocompaniet, T+A, Luxman, McIntosh, etc), paired with DACS like Carey audio, or HiFi rose, that have no room correction in their audio chain. People will recommend other DACs that have room correction like some of the NAD DACs, but how does that help someone that already owns a super expensive DAC that they like? To be fair McIntosh made an attempt at a room correction system, but again it is limited.

There is no real easy solution for someone with a 2.2 HiFi setup and I believe there is a big market for it. If you go on the miniDSP forum, you will see post after post after post, of people complaining that miniDSP still doesn't support Dirac bass control. The product specialists at miniDSP just keep blowing them off, saying that "licensing is complicated" or that "we're looking into it". miniDSP knows they are the only game in town, so there is no pressure to upgrade. I suspect if a competitor came out and offered a good solution, miniDSP would likely quickly respond or be left in the dust.

The Eversolo DMP-A10 is a DAC that advertises plug and play room correction for both speakers and dual subs. It also has a similar chipset as the DAC that is in my receiver, so I would be open to it. It's just a lot of coin. $3999 usd, and I am not sure how good it is. But that is sort of where I am leaning right now.

 

[bluefuzz]

Actually no, what I was describing will take significantly more time and understanding than just taking two REW sweeps. (We're talking independent measurements of each speaker and sub, with a consistant timing reference; looking at the amplitude and phase responses to select appropriate crossover filter frequencies and types; and optimisting time delays.)

OK, but we are still talking a fairly short list of trivial steps (click here, push this button etc.) that anyone with basic reading competence should be able to follow. It may take a bit longer than ten minutes but certainly not 'multiple lifetimes of learning and fiddling' as OP seems to think.

 

[marked sound]

All DSP I know is too difficult for my own 91 year old grandmother.
I think when (if) she turns 95 that will still be true.

Too bad. If your 91 year old grandmother could figure it out I might have been willing to compromise.

 

[marked sound]

OK, but we are still talking a fairly short list of trivial steps (click here, push this button etc.) that anyone with basic reading competence should be able to follow. It may take a bit longer than ten minutes but certainly not 'multiple lifetimes of learning and fiddling' as OP seems to think.

If this is indeed true then I am interested. However others tend to underestimate how involved something is to someone without their expertise.

 

[Sokel]

The Eversolo DMP-A10 is a DAC that advertises plug and play room correction for both speakers and dual subs. It also has a similar chipset as the DAC that is in my receiver, so I would be open to it. It's just a lot of coin. $3999 usd, and I am not sure how good it is. But that is sort of where I am leaning right now.

Luxsin X9 does it as well for less I think but I'm not sure (Mama Everesolo may have it limited? )
I'm also not sure if it's automated as you want.

 

[Ultrasonic]

As far as I remember it's always been able to do this but I may be misunderstanding what you mean. Dirac (on the C658) does adjust the impulse response of the mains and sub(s) automatically relative to each other. Or you can choose to disable this feature.

We're talking about different things. Yes like all Dirac implementations the C658 can make phase adjustments to improve the impulse response. This is different to optimising the main speaker vs sub(s) time delays, which in a worst case could result in complete cancellation at the crossover frequency if wrong.

 

[bluefuzz]

If someone came out with a device that does room correction to the same sophistication of those 13.2 AVR receivers, but geared it just towards people with just 2.2 HiFi systems, I suspect that they would make a fortune.

I'm afraid you are probably mistaken there. I think subwoofer usage is fairly rare outside the already miniscule home theatre community. The fact that the NAD C658 has been more or less alone in this segment for the best part of a decade says it all. If you want something more advanced you have to be prepared to get your hands dirty, so to speak.

There are plenty of people out there with high end amps (like Electrocompaniet, T+A, Luxman, McIntosh, etc), paired with DACS like Carey audio, or HiFi rose, that have no room correction in their audio chain.

Well, if people don't do their due diligence as to basic functionality before buying expensive audio jewellery then more fool them ...

but how does that help someone that already owns a super expensive DAC that they like?

Obviously, it doesn't. It's been fairly conclusively demonstrated by Amir's and other's DAC tests that price has essentially no bearing whatsoever on functionality or even basic audio quality.

There is no real easy solution for someone with a 2.2 HiFi setup and I believe there is a big market for it.

Again, I don't believe there's much of a market but the easy solution does exist in the shape of the C658 ...

 

[Ultrasonic]

OK, but we are still talking a fairly short list of trivial steps (click here, push this button etc.) that anyone with basic reading competence should be able to follow. It may take a bit longer than ten minutes but certainly not 'multiple lifetimes of learning and fiddling' as OP seems to think.

I still disagree, both because I think you're underestimating the complexity for many and because there are judgements/decisions that need to be made for optimal results which are not purely an exact list of steps for someone to follow. Especially where multiple subwoofers are concerned. Since the OP wants a hypothetical elderly woman to be able to do this I would very strongly recommend he stays well clear of miniDSP products.

 

[Ultrasonic]

The fact that the NAD C658 has been more or less alone in this segment for the best part of a decade says it all.

miniDSP were there first and remain but I appreciate they're a less mainstream brand than NAD.

 

[Ultrasonic]

If someone came out with a device that does room correction to the same sophistication of those 13.2 AVR receivers, but geared it just towards people with just 2.2 HiFi systems, I suspect that they would make a fortune. There are plenty of people out there with high end amps (like Electrocompaniet, T+A, Luxman, McIntosh, etc), paired with DACS like Carey audio, or HiFi rose, that have no room correction in their audio chain. People will recommend other DACs that have room correction like some of the NAD DACs, but how does that help someone that already owns a super expensive DAC that they like? To be fair McIntosh made an attempt at a room correction system, but again it is limited.

I agree with @bluefuzz that you're overestimating the commonality of subwoofers in stereo music systems. It is increasing, and I have personally encouraged this on many occasions, but it remains rare. Were a good automated product to be introduced it would make this an easier sell but many audiophiles will just be inherently against the use of subwoofers, albeit for flawed reasons. In many case born from experiences of poorly integrated subwoofers.

Use of an external DAC is a totally different question though. I use an external DAC with my SHD as per my signature, and could do so with more expensive/esoteric options too (provided we're not talking DACs with very high or variable latency).

There is no real easy solution for someone with a 2.2 HiFi setup and I believe there is a big market for it. If you go on the miniDSP forum, you will see post after post after post, of people complaining that miniDSP still doesn't support Dirac bass control. The product specialists at miniDSP just keep blowing them off, saying that "licensing is complicated" or that "we're looking into it". miniDSP knows they are the only game in town, so there is no pressure to upgrade. I suspect if a competitor came out and offered a good solution, miniDSP would likely quickly respond or be left in the dust.

I'm not actually sure that the SHD hardware is even capable of running DLBC and I've seen not clear statement from miniDSP staff on the matter. Just because people want it doesn't mean it's possible, and even if it were there is the question of what the additional licence cost would be. As an SHD owner I would not personally be interested in DLBC for anything more than a very nominal fee, although I expect the majority would be more keen.

 

[marked sound]

Luxsin X9 does it as well for less I think but I'm not sure (Mama Everesolo may have it limited? )
I'm also not sure if it's automated as you want.

This is listed a headphone amp? I already have a receiver and a DAC. Sorry I am not sure how I would use this.

 

[Sokel]

This is listed a headphone amp? I already have a receiver and a DAC. Sorry I am not sure how I would use this.

It's a very good (objectively) DAC with bonuses, that's the best way to describe it.
Can also be used as a safe (analog) pre-amp beacause of its R2R VC, it has broad functionality as a headphone amp as well (no matter if you need it or not) and (for your case) srereo sub outputs, with low and high pass filters (not sure about RC or automation though, as its bigger cousins)

Here's the review, you may ask about what you want at the thread, their rep responses very fast so far:

Luxsin X9 Smart Stereo DAC & Preamp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Luxsin X9 stereo "smart" balanced DAC, preamplifier and headphone amp. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $1099. Luxsin is a new brand for the Zidoo/Eversolo company and focused on higher-end audio products. In this instance, we have...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[bluefuzz]

This is different to optimising the main speaker vs sub(s) time delays, which in a worst case could result could result in complete cancellation at the crossover frequency if wrong.

OK, I see what you mean. I haven't found it to be a problem in practice with the C658, but I only have one sub. Whatever Dirac is doing on the C658 it is doing it on 4 channels as opposed to only two on the SHD and other MiniDSP devices. Whether that makes much of a difference in the quality of its corrections I wouldn't care to say. It's good enough for me.