miniDSP SHD only does 2 channels of Dirac. I want 2 subs. Options?

[marked sound]

I was going to purchase a miniDSP SHD until I found out it only does 2 channels of Dirac, and will not apply Dirac independently to the subs in a 2.2 setup. It instead wants to do some goofy thing where it incorporates the subs as part of the mains. This seems problematic as the subs will placed in different parts of the room from the mains. Whats worse is I did not see any where on the sight to upgrade the Dirac license for the SHD to more than 2 channels.

So I have some questions.

#1. Has anyone found a way to upgrade their Dirac license for the miniDSP SHD to more than 2 channels for a 2.2 setup?
#2. Already got a DAC + amp I like. Anyone know of other devices (not a PC or different amp) THAT JUST DOES ROOM CORRECTION and also HAS SOME DIGITAL OUTS?
#3. Would buying 2 miniDSPs work? Like say having SHD studio for my mains and then buying the DDRC-24 for the subs?
#4. If I do miniDSP's goofy way measuring the subs as part of the mains, will that still sound good?
#5. What the heck was miniDSP thinking by not offering an upgrade of Dirac to people with a 2.2 setup?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I realize that the miniDSP has a "home theater" version that offers multi channel Dirac, however it does not have digital outs for my DAC and Amp to handle the rest.

If I want 2.2 channel room correction thats not a PC, but still using my same amp and DAC for music, What are my best options? Am I asking for a unicorn product that doesn't exist?

Thanks

 

[Keith_W]

The MiniDSP Flex has two digital outs that can control 2 DAC's, so you have 4 DAC channels in total.

It's not clear to me why you would want two MiniDSP's. It's generally a bad idea - when you want to measure, you will see 2 output devices. You can only measure one device at a time. You will have trouble measuring all your speakers together - which means more problems programming them to work together. There are workarounds, so it is possible to get a setup like this to work. But I think you are better off getting a single device with as many channels as you need in the first place.

I don't know what "goofy way" Dirac is measuring the subs as part of the mains. At some point, the subs SHOULD be measured together with the mains (and with each other). Do you have a link to what you are talking about?

Questions 1 and 5: you should ask in the MiniDSP support forum.

 

[Hayabusa]

This seems problematic as the subs will placed in different parts of the room from the mains. Whats worse is I did not see any where on the sight to upgrade the Dirac license for the SHD to more than 2 channels.

I used also 2 subs with the SHD. I first made sure there was correct time alignment and level set with SHD between the subs and 'main' before running Dirac. This then works well!

 

[YSDR]

The MiniDSP Flex has two digital outs that can control 2 DAC's, so you have 4 DAC channels in total.

It's not clear to me why you would want two MiniDSP's.

Same as the SHD.

He want to use Dirac independentely for the subs and for the mains, this is not possible with a single miniDSP product as far as I know. In the current state you need to manually EQ the subs and the mains and then you can use Dirac if the EQ (and time/phase alignment) was done, this is the recommended procedure. But if the manual EQ can't be hit very well in terms of acoustic phase between the sub(s) and the mains, then the shared Dirac won't be the best either. Probably that's why he asking an independent, automatized phase and frequency linearization in the form of Dirac that's maybe possible with two miniDSP processors.

 

[bluefuzz]

2.2 channel room correction thats not a PC

NAD C658 has separate Dirac channels for mains and subs. But that would mean replacing your dac of course.

 

[markstein]

So I have some questions.

I had a SHD with a similar setup (stereo setup with two MSO optimized subs in mono). Sold the SHD due to these reasons:
1) No volume attenuation prior to it's ASRC which can lead to intersample clipping, especially when using the integrated Volumio streamer. This was solved in the meantime by a firmware update.
2) I did not like Volumio.
3) I did not like Dirac.

You may try a MiniDSP Flex instead (no streamer, no Dirac) and do the necessary corrections with manual PEQ. Costs way less than a SHD. There are versions with different I/O configurations for the most common setups available. Just be sure that 1) is solved for the Flex as well.

 

[marked sound]

The MiniDSP Flex has two digital outs that can control 2 DAC's, so you have 4 DAC channels in total.

It's not clear to me why you would want two MiniDSP's. It's generally a bad idea - when you want to measure, you will see 2 output devices. You can only measure one device at a time. You will have trouble measuring all your speakers together - which means more problems programming them to work together. There are workarounds, so it is possible to get a setup like this to work. But I think you are better off getting a single device with as many channels as you need in the first place.

I don't know what "goofy way" Dirac is measuring the subs as part of the mains. At some point, the subs SHOULD be measured together with the mains (and with each other). Do you have a link to what you are talking about?

Questions 1 and 5: you should ask in the MiniDSP support forum.

I do not want two miniDSPs. I only want one. However only one will not do everything. The miniDSP SHD only offers 2 channels of Dirac calibration. Those 2 channels are immediately taken up by your two front speakers, offering no independent calibration for your Subs.

What the miniDSP company wants to do, is treat a main speaker and the sub as one single unit and calibrate them together as a combined calibration. You know those big kinds of tower speakers with built in bass woofers on the bottom? The miniDSP wants to treat your system like that because it does not offer enough channels measure the subs separately. The problem is my speakers do NOT have built in subs. The subs will be separate and in different parts of my room. Pretending the speakers and subs are all one unit when they are not, will not give proper calibration.

I want a device that will give at least FOUR INDEPENDENT channels of Dirac calibration, so that I can measure the subs and speakers separately, and I am asking if there is one. If there is no such device out there, (and since the miniDSP only offers 2 channels of calibration) I was wondering if purchasing two miniDSPs would work? Using one for the speakers and another for the subs.

 

[marked sound]

I had a SHD with a similar setup (stereo setup with two MSO optimized subs in mono). Sold the SHD due to these reasons:
1) No volume attenuation prior to it's ASRC which can lead to intersample clipping, especially when using the integrated Volumio streamer. This was solved in the meantime by a firmware update.
2) I did not like Volumio.
3) I did not like Dirac.

You may try a MiniDSP Flex instead (no streamer, no Dirac) and do the necessary corrections with manual PEQ. Costs way less than a SHD. There are versions with different I/O configurations for the most common setups available. Just be sure that 1) is solved for the Flex as well.

The Flex downgrades things to 48 khz when using Dirac. The SHD does 96 khz. However the Flex still doesn't solve my problem. I want a plug and play option where the MIC and the calibration tool automatically detects and sets EVERYTHING. I don't want to spend days/weeks learning and fooling around with REW or other manual EQ programs.

 

[YSDR]

I want a device that will give at least FOUR INDEPENDENT channels of Dirac calibration, so that I can measure the subs and speakers separately, and I am asking if there is one. If there is no such device out there, (and since the miniDSP only offers 2 channels of calibration) I was wondering if purchasing two miniDSPs would work? Using one for the speakers and another for the subs.

Don't forget that you can also manually adjust the subwoofers and main speakers as miniDSP suggests (you can measure them separately outside of Dirac), and if you get that right, then the 2-channel Dirac calibration will be sufficient.

 

[marked sound]

NAD C658 has separate Dirac channels for mains and subs. But that would mean replacing your dac of course.

If the C658 had a digital out, it would be the answer to my prayers. Looks like my only option is the Eversolo DMP-A10. I just didn't want to spend so much.

 

[marked sound]

Don't forget that you can also manually adjust the subwoofers and main speakers as miniDSP suggests (you can measure them separately outside of Dirac), and if you get that right, then the 2-channel Dirac calibration will be sufficient.

I am not looking to do that though. I want it all automated. I have no interest in spending days manually calibrating hoping i get it right. miniDSP needs to update their dinosaur tech, since there are even mid level Denon receivers offering independent sub calibration. Since they stubbornly seem unwilling to, despite outcries from customers and the audio community, I need to find a solution.

 

[TurtlePaul]

MiniDSP does not offer what you want, when using either one or two devices. Move on. You don’t just want four Dirac channels, you want Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC). Go to the site for DLBC and there is a list of compatible devices.

https://www.dirac.com/products/bass-control?srsltid=AfmBOoo60t_g9D3FgdzonO5Qw8VSO6RSMYTvxbG4cuWiV4fUoSXF7Kxv

 

[markstein]

The Flex downgrades things to 48 khz when using Dirac. The SHD does 96 khz. However the Flex still doesn't solve my problem. I want a plug and play option where the MIC and the calibration tool automatically detects and sets EVERYTHING. I don't want to spend days/weeks learning and fooling around with REW or other manual EQ programs.

Then you need an AVR or AVP with Dirac BC or ART or Audyssey XT32 and miniDSP devices are the wrong tools for you...

 

[mps]

What DLBC-compatible electronics would be a better choice for a stereo with two subwoofers? The compatibility list looks like mainly multichannel AV systems.

 

[marked sound]

MiniDSP does not offer what you want, when using either one or two devices. Move on. You don’t just want four Dirac channels, you want Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC). Go to the site for DLBC and there is a list of compatible devices.

https://www.dirac.com/products/bass-control?srsltid=AfmBOoo60t_g9D3FgdzonO5Qw8VSO6RSMYTvxbG4cuWiV4fUoSXF7Kxv

I would love to move on if there was such a device to move on to. I checked link you provided, and the only way to find out is you have pretend to try and purchase a Dirac bass control for you device. The only devices listed seem like AVR's. I am only running a HiFi stereo system with 2 subs and I already have an amp. However, I am not I am not only stuck on Dirac. I am open to a device that offers ANY sort of competent 2.2 room correction. Whether it be DIRAC or something else.

 

[Keith_W]

I am open to a device that offers ANY sort of competent 2.2 room correction. Whether it be DIRAC or something else.

You could do it manually with REW. I have seen the result of many Dirac corrections on ASR, and I am not particularly impressed. I think that I could do a better job with REW.

As with all DSP, the no. 1 cause of bad sounding DSP is user error. This is less of a factor in automatic DSP systems like Dirac, and more of a factor when you are making manual corrections. If you fail to take proper measurements, and try to make inappropriate corrections, you will get a bad result. The difference is that YOU can learn to read measurements, and you can decide if the measurement should be corrected or not. And you can decide how much or how little correction you want to make. Dirac has no idea whether you have given it a quality measurement, so it simply goes ahead and does what you tell it to do. This is not just a limitation of Dirac, only YOU know how you set up the measurement system and the conditions of your measurement. No software in the world can possibly know that. And even if I see your measurement, I don't know that. I am probably better than Dirac at reading measurements, but sometimes I just need to be there so that I can have confidence in the measurement.

If your priority is ultimate SQ, then go with manual correction. It's a steep learning curve and there are many things to learn. And you will spend a lot of time staring at your screen in frustration, having spent hours on a correction, wondering why it sounds so bad even though the curve looks good on the screen. I've been there.

 

[marked sound]

You could do it manually with REW. I have seen the result of many Dirac corrections on ASR, and I am not particularly impressed. I think that I could do a better job with REW.

As with all DSP, the no. 1 cause of bad sounding DSP is user error. This is less of a factor in automatic DSP systems like Dirac, and more of a factor when you are making manual corrections. If you fail to take proper measurements, and try to make inappropriate corrections, you will get a bad result. The difference is that YOU can learn to read measurements, and you can decide if the measurement should be corrected or not. And you can decide how much or how little correction you want to make. Dirac has no idea whether you have given it a quality measurement, so it simply goes ahead and does what you tell it to do. This is not just a limitation of Dirac, only YOU know how you set up the measurement system and the conditions of your measurement. No software in the world can possibly know that. And even if I see your measurement, I don't know that. I am probably better than Dirac at reading measurements, but sometimes I just need to be there so that I can have confidence in the measurement.

If your priority is ultimate SQ, then go with manual correction. It's a steep learning curve and there are many things to learn. And you will spend a lot of time staring at your screen in frustration, having spent hours on a correction, wondering why it sounds so bad even though the curve looks good on the screen. I've been there.

Not at all interested in manual correction, but thanks.

 

[Mort]

am not looking to do that though. I want it all automated. I have no interest in spending days manually calibrating hoping i get it right. miniDSP needs to update their dinosaur tech, since there are even mid level Denon receivers offering independent sub calibration. Since they stubbornly seem unwilling to, despite outcries from customers and the audio community, I need to find a solution.

OI-vey. Laying it on a little thick, aren't we?

Just buy a Denon.

 

[mps]

The Denons all have at least 13 channels. Is that really the best recommendation available?

 

[marked sound]

OI-vey. Laying it on a little thick, aren't we?

Just buy a Denon.

I already have a 2 channel HiFi Integrated amp. Why would I want a multichannel AVR if I am juat playing stereo?