Minidsp Flex Review (Audio DSP)

[antcollinet]

Does anyone know how the filters affect performance? E.g. If you add a high pass filter above 80Hz to see all low end to a sub etc.

Obviously lowpass/highpass filters will impact the frequency and phase response, depending on the filter implementation. That is what they are for.

Or do you mean how do the digital filters affect noise/distortion etc?

Since those are done in the digital domain, then if they are implemented correctly they'll have little to no influence. The bulk of noise and distortion occur in the digital to analogue conversion (or the other way around for the analogue inputs).


Obviously if the DSP is programmed to add noise and distortion then... well... you get what you ask for.

 

[killdozzer]

Obviously lowpass/highpass filters will impact the frequency and phase response, depending on the filter implementation. That is what they are for.

Or do you mean how do the digital filters affect noise/distortion etc?

Since those are done in the digital domain, then if they are implemented correctly they'll have little to no influence. The bulk of noise and distortion occur in the digital to analogue conversion (or the other way around for the analogue inputs).


Obviously if the DSP is programmed to add noise and distortion then... well... you get what you ask for.

Slowly over time, I got the feeling I'd be better off if I followed you.

 

[aarong]

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm new to this stuff.
Could I use the Bluetooth input, route it through the toslink into my Yamaha R-N602, then route the analog signal from my Yamaha R-N602 back to the Flex for DSP processing, then to my speakers?
I have more audio sources than the Flex can handle and would prefer to use the DAC of the yamaha. So if this is not possible then the Bluetooth capability would be useless to me.

 

[mugbot]

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm new to this stuff.
Could I use the Bluetooth input, route it through the toslink into my Yamaha R-N602, then route the analog signal from my Yamaha R-N602 back to the Flex for DSP processing, then to my speakers?
I have more audio sources than the Flex can handle and would prefer to use the DAC of the yamaha. So if this is not possible then the Bluetooth capability would be useless to me.

DSP is in the digital domain, so your chain here is:

bluetooth (digital) -> Yamaha (digital to analog) -> Flex (analog to digital) -> DSP -> Flex (digital to analog) -> Speakers

There's no benefit in the Yamaha DAC if you want DSP, as the signal goes through an ADC then another DAC before your speakers.
Provided you can sort out the connections, if you wanted to use the Yamaha DAC you'd need the digital flex, and it would need to be in the chain before the DAC.

 

[antcollinet]

DSP is in the digital domain, so your chain here is:

bluetooth (digital) -> Yamaha (digital to analog) -> Flex (analog to digital) -> DSP -> Flex (digital to analog) -> Speakers

There's no benefit in the Yamaha DAC if you want DSP, as the signal goes through an ADC then another DAC before your speakers.
Provided you can sort out the connections, if you wanted to use the Yamaha DAC you'd need the digital flex, and it would need to be in the chain before the DAC.

That would only work, if the yamaha amp has preout and power amp in. It would also require use of the Yamaha bluetooth input.

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm new to this stuff.
Could I use the Bluetooth input, route it through the toslink into my Yamaha R-N602, then route the analog signal from my Yamaha R-N602 back to the Flex for DSP processing, then to my speakers?
I have more audio sources than the Flex can handle and would prefer to use the DAC of the yamaha. So if this is not possible then the Bluetooth capability would be useless to me.

It is not possible to route the bluetooth signal out of the digital unless you have the Digital version of the flex (but that has no analogue input). As has been pointed out above, the DSP is done in digital: you *always* use the Flex DAC**, so since the flex has bluetooth, it would be (much) better:

Source>bluetooth>Flex DSP and DAC>Yamaha>speakers.

If you use the digital version of the flex, then:
source>bluetooth>flexDSP>flex digtal output>yamaha toslink input>speakers.

**The flex DAC measures very well - it is likely better than the one in the Yamaha.

 

[MCH]

I believe his problem is that he has more sources than the flex can handle…. So I am afraid he cannot have DSP for all his sources without changing or buying something…
I can think on the following possibilities, there are probably more. In all of them he can simply use the Bluetooth of the flex
1)
Multiple sources -> Yamaha tape out -> Flex analogue in -> flex DSP -> power amplifier ->
Pros: he can add subs properly
Cons: I guess the tape out will be fixed level, will have to adjust the volume in the flex

2)
Switches to accommodate extra sources -> Flex DSP -> Yamaha line in -> speakers
Pros: not many, will need to buy a streamer too.

3)
Change the Yamaha for an integrated that has DSP loop:
Multiple sources -> integrated DSP out -> flex or any other DSP -> integrated DSP in -> speakers
I don’t know how common integrated with loops for DSP are nowadays, my 90s Sony had it. You could short it if you didn’t have a dsp or use it if yes. Very useful.

Unfortunately the Yamaha cannot do that:

 

[aarong]

Thanks for the info, I'll think about this for a while. But I'm probably going for a receiver with DSP loop, that sounds like the most elegant solution.

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks for the info, I'll think about this for a while. But I'm probably going for a receiver with DSP loop, that sounds like the most elegant solution.

Bear in mind - if you do, you'll be doing digital to analogue in the receiver, analogue to digital in the flex, and then digital to analogue again in the flex.

You'd be better off getting a device to merge multiple inputs down to one digital output to the flex, and keeping your current receiver as an amp. What that looks like depends on how many and of what type of digital sources you have.

 

[aarong]

Bear in mind - if you do, you'll be doing digital to analogue in the receiver, analogue to digital in the flex, and then digital to analogue again in the flex.

You'd be better off getting a device to merge multiple inputs down to one digital output to the flex, and keeping your current receiver as an amp. What that looks like depends on how many and of what type of digital sources you have.

That's what I wanted to avoid lol.
Does a device exist such that:
Receiver (with lots of inputs) -> digital out to digital in on DSP -> digital or analog out to digital or analog in of the Receiver -> speakers. ?
I can't find one despite this seeming like a very useful device, have I overlooked something?

Only 2 devices would be needed and they would be fully utilized

 

[Eetu]

Maybe share what inputs you need?

A Bluesound Node would get you HDMI eArc + optical in, so paired with the Flex you would have streaming services via Wifi, Bluetooth, HDMI eARC in, optical in, coax in, analog in. Quite an expensive solution though and probably would make more sense connected to a simple power amp than the Yamaha..

There's also toslink 2/4-in 1-out switches with auto switching available.

 

[aarong]

Maybe share what inputs you need?

A Bluesound Node would get you HDMI eArc + optical in, so paired with the Flex you would have streaming services via Wifi, Bluetooth, HDMI eARC in, optical in, coax in, analog in. Quite an expensive solution though and probably would make more sense connected to a simple power amp than the Yamaha..

There's also toslink 2/4-in 1-out switches with auto switching available.

Currently I have a toslink input from an Audioengine B1 and another toslink input from a PS4. I'm planning on another toslink input from an HDMI splitter and another input from a raspberry pi. My Yamaha also doesn't work for my plans so I'd have to replace it or use a switch anyways.

A toslink switch with auto switching + remote control sounds like a good choice I think.
Am I correnct in my assumption that because of the digital nature of toslink switches, it doesn't matter which one I get regarding audio quality? If so then I can focus on features alone

 

[MCH]

Currently I have a toslink input from an Audioengine B1 and another toslink input from a PS4. I'm planning on another toslink input from an HDMI splitter and another input from a raspberry pi. My Yamaha also doesn't work for my plans so I'd have to replace it or use a switch anyways.

A toslink switch with auto switching + remote control sounds like a good choice I think.
Am I correnct in my assumption that because of the digital nature of toslink switches, it doesn't matter which one I get regarding audio quality? If so then I can focus on features alone

In your case I think I would go for a toslink switch, they work very well with a remote control. If you get a learning remote (maybe the one of the flex already is??), you can switch sources very easily. It is a shame you will not get any advantage of the multiple inputs and features of your Yamaha though. Well, you can still use the tone controls and the loudness volume, and the super nice volume control.

If you want to go for the automatic toslink switches (I am aware of one from Lindy and another one that is a sort of DIY device someone makes in the US) do your research. Some people gave good feedback of the US one, and someone recently reported not very enthusiastically about the Lindy one here in the forum. Iirc it was something related to the device continuously scanning for signal and a certain delay when the signal was detected. I wonder what happens when one of the sources is outputting a signal that you don’t want to listen (example: listening to your streamer while your TV is on).

What I wonder as well is how the flex is going to react to a toslink signal changing sample rates, probably fine, maybe some owners can comment.

 

[Eetu]

A toslink switch with auto switching + remote control sounds like a good choice I think.
Am I correnct in my assumption that because of the digital nature of toslink switches, it doesn't matter which one I get regarding audio quality? If so then I can focus on features alone

I don't have personal experience with these type of switches but yes, I think the impact on SQ should be minimal.

I remember some people on the RME forum recommend this device (the same @MarcosCh referred to?) but if you don't need auto switching there are devices in the 15-30 usd/eur range that probably do the job.

 

[diablo]

What I wonder as well is how the flex is going to react to a toslink signal changing sample rates, probably fine, maybe some owners can comment.

I regulary switch bit rates and sample rates from my Wiim Mini, with no problem.

I use a simple optical device to combine or split Toslink signals, works fine. similar to this one -

Opto-optical Toslink Distributor Splitter Adapter for Optical Cables 1 IN 2 OUT; | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Opto-optical Toslink Distributor Splitter Adapter for Optical Cables 1 IN 2 OUT; at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

No need to use electonics if the signal paths are short enough.

 

[antcollinet]

Currently I have a toslink input from an Audioengine B1 and another toslink input from a PS4. I'm planning on another toslink input from an HDMI splitter and another input from a raspberry pi. My Yamaha also doesn't work for my plans so I'd have to replace it or use a switch anyways.

A toslink switch with auto switching + remote control sounds like a good choice I think.
Am I correnct in my assumption that because of the digital nature of toslink switches, it doesn't matter which one I get regarding audio quality? If so then I can focus on features alone

If a toslink switch works without errors then sound quality will not be affected. If it has errors, it will be obvious in the form of pops, clicks or dropouts.

As long as your cables are not too long, it is unlikely to have errors.

 

[lashto]

My favorite statements are those that make points valid while being 50% false.

That might be an (alternate) definition for 'point of view'. Here's an interesting POV:

If everything on earth were rational, nothing would happen.
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

 

[mdsimon2]

Currently I have a toslink input from an Audioengine B1 and another toslink input from a PS4. I'm planning on another toslink input from an HDMI splitter and another input from a raspberry pi. My Yamaha also doesn't work for my plans so I'd have to replace it or use a switch anyways.

A toslink switch with auto switching + remote control sounds like a good choice I think.
Am I correnct in my assumption that because of the digital nature of toslink switches, it doesn't matter which one I get regarding audio quality? If so then I can focus on features alone

Seems like the Flex has enough inputs for you. Get rid of the Audioengine B1 and use the built in Bluetooth receiver on the Flex. Convert one of your TOSLINK inputs to coaxial (or just get a HDMI extractor that outputs coaxial). RPi can use the USB input.

Michael

 

[tpjan]

Hi guys,

This is my first writing here.

I have often been reading here (not enough to make me an expert though). Thank you all and thanks to amirm for a lot of good reviews.

My current setup: PC with equalizer APO, streaming from Tidal Masters -> SMSL M8 dac -> Xindak PA-M power amp -> Open baffles with Audio Nirvana super 15"
The open baffles makes it necessary with the equalizer to give more bass.

If I connect the TV to the SMSL M8 it sounds kind of empty because of the lack of bass.

I would love a MiniDSP Flex because it will give me more bass without the dependency of the pc.

Question is:
I really love to have very high fidelity. The difference is very clear on a simple setup with full range speaker units.

The Flex' DAC is good (probably better than my M8) but not at good as for example a Topping E50.

Will it make more sense to buy a Flex Balanced, or a Flex Digital + a Topping E50

The Flex digital will be running 96khz and that will be somewhat limiting right? will I benefit a lot from a high end DAC after the Flex? And what about audio formats like MQA will it pass through the Flex to the DAC?

 

[antcollinet]

First - the Flex measures well enough that any noise / distortion is inaudible. So you'll not get better sound from a 'better' DAC.

Obviously it can't pass through MQA, since it has to decode all inputs to 96/24 PCM (or 48/24 PCM - if using DIRAC). This is not an audible issue, unless you have bat or dog ears.

 

[HoJ76]

Two questions...
1) I have now Minidsp ddrc-24 with Dirac live, will I get better sound with the Flex rca?
2) Is it possible to move my Dirac live license from one product to another?