MiniDSP Flex HT look awesome! Any Short Comings I'm missing?

[rimmi2002]

I am thinking of transitioning from an AVR (Onkyo NR7100) to a separate preamp/amp setup.

Came across the miniDSP Flex HT. It seems like an awesome device — perfect for what I want, well-reviewed, and really affordable. Wanted to get input from the experts here to make sure I'm not missing anything.

I have a 5.2 system and already own a UMIK-1, miniDSP 2x4HD (for subs), and an HD Fury. My main use is watching items from my Apple TV / 4K player on my 4K projector (BenQ HT4550).

Pros for me:

• Based on reviews, looks like a top-performing HT DAC.
• Way more affordable than any other reputable multichannel DAC.
• I am comfortable with REW, but it's nice to know I can pay for Dirac as well if needed.
• Has all the features I need (I think).

Concerns:
Mainly questions on whether I’m missing anything. The only thing I notice is that I won’t have AVR-style up conversion of non-4K content (my projector/player can take care of this), lack of smart features (none of which I use) + its more technical to setup/use (but I enjoy that).

1. The most important thing for me in the DAC is its ability to cleanly do its job as a DAC.
   In terms of DAC performance, do objective numbers like SINAD and other objective tests tell the whole story or are there other subjective measures that numbers don't and I should be aware of?
2. I might transition from a 5.2 to a 2.2 system down the line. In doing so, will the Flex HT be able to convert my DTS-MA / Dolby Atmos movie soundtracks to 2.2 like my AVR does?
3. When sending digital audio (from Blu-rays / 4K movies) to the Flex HT via Arcana 4K, I know it converts it to PCM similar to what an AVR does, but there shouldn't be any loss of quality compared to an AVR or Anthem preamp DAC, right?

Please let me know your thoughts on whether you think there is anything else important that I should consider regarding the Flex HT vs. much more expensive HT DACs from Anthem or other reputable manufacturers.

Thanks for your help and advice in advance!

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

I went from an AVR to miniDSP Flex HT and am very happy with it.

Going that route, here are the most common obstacles:
1 - no bitstream decoding
2 - only eARC
3 - no built-in down-mixing nor up-mixing
4 - many remote control needed

You carefully need to think about how you going to handle these.

I did not face these obstacles as:
1 - my unique HDMI source (TV media box) could already do bitstream decoding and sends lpcm
2 - I bought a cheap FeinTech VAX04101A for eARC support
3- I had to do my own basic upmixing from 2.0 to 5.2 for as original broadcast TV channels signal is encoded in DD+ 2.0 in France.
4 - I have been using for years a Logitech harmony hub and remote

Regarding your 3 questions:
1 - you won't see anything difference (SINAD already beyond ears capabilities in case of AVR and Flex HT)
2 - No ! Flex is not doing any decoding nor automatic up/down mixing. But as I mentioned you can implement very basic up/down mixing using Flex HT capabilities such as channel routing, inverting & gain setting. It will never be as good as what AVR can do with builtin dolby and DTS algorithms, but enough for me.
3 - No as I don't think HD fury is doing bitstream to lpcm decoding.

Hope it helps!

 

[Waxx]

The MiniDSP does not do any decoding, it's a speaker dsp; a digital crossover, preamp and dac. The surround processing is something it does not do and that needs to be done elsewhere in the chain if you need that.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

The Flex HT is a great device, but there's no way I would change from an NR7100 to a Flex HT unless you need the form factor or want to the flexibility of using REW yourself more directly

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

The MiniDSP does not do any decoding, it's a speaker dsp; a digital crossover, preamp and dac. The surround processing is something it does not do and that needs to be done elsewhere in the chain if you need that.

Agree !
But in case source is sending 2.0 lpcm, some very "rudimentary kind of" upmixing from 2.0 to recreate surrounds can be done in the flex HT by redirecting each channel to its related surround and adding inverted opposite channel and applying negative gain to the result and stored into a dedicated preset (that's what I do for TV DD+ 2.0 streams)
And there is a built LFE management.

 

[skankhobag]

Here’s the problem: what’s going to be decoding your surround audio and powering your speakers?

If it’s still going to be your AVR, I’m at a loss as to why you want the MiniDSP unit?

Myself, I want to get rid of disc players and pre/pros. On top of that, I plan on building custom, DIY, active, DSP-controlled mains, subs and surrounds. Everything would revolve around a Mac Mini.

I’d rip everything to SSD, playback via VLC, Dolby & DTS media players, process all the audio with Dirac, Apple Mainstage and FabFilter’s Pro-Q4. The digital outs will be a MOTU 112D to supply AES to all of the DACs and plate amplifiers. While the surrounds would use Hypex Fusion plate amps and their DSP, the LRC and subs will have separate DACs dedicated to each.

The mains and surrounds will be comprised of Radian planer magnetic drivers that are the latest designs by Igor Levitsky. The subs will be by Rythmik.

Will this be incredibly complex to create? Absolutely. Forgetting the hardware, I’ll need 6 software apps to accomplish this and a couple VST plugins (crossovers/EQ/room correction/2:7 upmixing)

Then there’s building the actual speakers as well as all of work that goes into perfecting them.

Let’s forget building the speakers.

I haven’t done a complete tally on the sum for all of the software and hardware to replace a disc player and a pre/pro with digital cables, but it’s around $4,500.

Keep in mind, this is replacing a disc player and any $25k+ pre/pro that isn’t as capable. Also, I’ve left out a ton of details for brevity’s sake.

I mention all this because it doesn’t seem like you’ve really explored all that you’d need to do to ditch an AVR completely.

 

[rimmi2002]

The MiniDSP does not do any decoding, it's a speaker dsp; a digital crossover, preamp and dac. The surround processing is something it does not do and that needs to be done elsewhere in the chain if you need that.

Agree !
But in case source is sending 2.0 lpcm, some very "rudimentary kind of" upmixing from 2.0 to recreate surrounds can be done in the flex HT by redirecting each channel to its related surround and adding inverted opposite channel and applying negative gain to the result and stored into a dedicated preset (that's what I do for TV DD+ 2.0 streams)
And there is a built LFE management.

Thanks for the input everyone.

1. For D. Atomos/DTS / Any Multichannel: I thought the HD Fury Arcana 4K will extract audio from a HDMI source and change it to LPCM...so I figure I was good for all multichannel audio with that setup. (am I correct or no?)

2. Converting Multichannel LPCM to 2.1 Stereo?
My main concern was what if I end up going with a 2.x system can I make my miniDSP take that 5/7 Channel LPCM signal and change it to a 2.x signal with some tinkering?

3. Upconverting 2.0 Signal to Multichannel:
I figured I'd lose this option with MiniDSP, but I wasn't that bothered by it. The only 2.0 content I listen to is from youtube (Music Videos). With my system I learned that 2.0 content sounds much better just in 2.1 stereo and have stopped upmixing it. So I figured I shouldn't really miss that part.

The Flex HT is a great device, but there's no way I would change from an NR7100 to a Flex HT unless you need the form factor or want to the flexibility of using REW yourself more directly

I figured an indepedent DAC + AMP should yield best possible results for any speaker system I use now or in the future.

Amir's review on the NR7100 showed its to a be poor DAC and Amp. It has nice features, especially with Dirac. I have been happy with but, but was trying to build a AMP/Pre-amp setup that can handle endgame setup. I don't mind doing the technical stuff to make it happen (As long its doable). If it serves my needs, would be great if I can save some significant $$ going the miniDSP route vs HT/other top performing Stereo DACs which are all just so expensive.

 

[Avp1]

Thanks for the input everyone.

1. For D. Atomos/DTS / Any Multichannel: I thought the HD Fury Arcana 4K will extract audio from a HDMI source and change it to LPCM...so I figure I was good for all multichannel audio with that setup. (am I correct or no?)

2. Converting Multichannel LPCM to 2.1 Stereo?
My main concern was what if I end up going with a 2.x system can I make my miniDSP take that 5/7 Channel LPCM signal and change it to a 2.x signal with some tinkering?

3. Upconverting 2.0 Signal to Multichannel:
I figured I'd lose this option with MiniDSP, but I wasn't that bothered by it. The only 2.0 content I listen to is from youtube (Music Videos). With my system I learned that 2.0 content sounds much better just in 2.1 stereo and have stopped upmixing it. So I figured I shouldn't really miss that part.

If you need HT audio processing, you may do better by getting Onkyo RZ70 receiver. It will do all kind of bitstream decoding and most of what miniDSP does including Dirac subwoofer processing for two independent subs. If not enough power - add 2 or 3 channel amplifier to it.

 

[bungle]

Thanks for the input everyone.

1. For D. Atomos/DTS / Any Multichannel: I thought the HD Fury Arcana 4K will extract audio from a HDMI source and change it to LPCM...so I figure I was good for all multichannel audio with that setup. (am I correct or no?)

You are not correct AFAIK. Arcana doesn’t decode. In fact it is almost impossible to find decoder outside AVRs. The Nubert comes to mind, and there is also Arvus and perhaps a few others. Nobody seams to make just decoder in affordable price range.

Streamers may be able to some of this, like Roku, Apple TV etc.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

1. For D. Atomos/DTS / Any Multichannel: I thought the HD Fury Arcana 4K will extract audio from a HDMI source and change it to LPCM...so I figure I was good for all multichannel audio with that setup. (am I correct or no?)

HD fury arcana will not do bitstream decoding to LPCM.
Your apple TV can output LPCM

2. Converting Multichannel LPCM to 2.1 Stereo?
My main concern was what if I end up going with a 2.x system can I make my miniDSP take that 5/7 Channel LPCM signal and change it to a 2.x signal with some tinkering?

As Flex does not perform any conversion, the only thing you can do is have a preset that perform downmixing of you own using available Flex tools such as channel matrix and routing, crossovers, gain and inversion.

Thanks for the input everyone.

1. For D. Atomos/DTS / Any Multichannel: I thought the HD Fury Arcana 4K will extract audio from a HDMI source and change it to LPCM...so I figure I was good for all multichannel audio with that setup. (am I correct or no?)

2. Converting Multichannel LPCM to 2.1 Stereo?
My main concern was what if I end up going with a 2.x system can I make my miniDSP take that 5/7 Channel LPCM signal and change it to a 2.x signal with some tinkering?

3. Upconverting 2.0 Signal to Multichannel:
I figured I'd lose this option with MiniDSP, but I wasn't that bothered by it. The only 2.0 content I listen to is from youtube (Music Videos). With my system I learned that 2.0 content sounds much better just in 2.1 stereo and have stopped upmixing it. So I figured I shouldn't really miss that part.

As I explain before, you can do 2.0 to 5.x upmixing with flex HT.

Minidsp Flex VT is a niche product.

I went from AVR to minidsp Flex HT with success as it completely fitted my specic use case.

Reading you posts, your motivation and expectations to for the Flex HT are not very clear. What are you looking for?

 

[rimmi2002]

HD fury arcana will not do bitstream decoding to LPCM.
Your apple TV can output LPCM

Thanks. I guess the info on the MiniDSP site is a bit misleading in that case (Screen shot below). They sell the Arcana 4K with the FlexHT to show the Flex HT can handle any audio from it. When I looked up info on the Arcana they say it can take D.Atmos/DTS audio and convert it to PCM when sending it via its audio eARC OUT.

Reading you posts, your motivation and expectations to for the Flex HT are not very clear. What are you looking for?

I am simply looking to transition to an independent Preamp/Amp at some point (no rush at the moment). I don't need more than 5 channel and maybe 7 max in future. So I figured I don't need to spend a lot on the 9/11/13 channel preamp setups that cost quite a bit more.

I'm glad I checked here. The sense I made of the info I read is that Flex HT could be my DAC. Arcana can decode multichannel audio without loss of quality and then I can send audio from Flex HT to a quality amp and have a high end Pre-Amp / Amp setup. (I lose some of the bells and whistles of an AVR, but I don't really need them). In return I get an top end DAC/preamp setup that fits my needs and a much lower price of perhaps an Antem PREamp.

 

[bungle]

Thanks. I guess the info on the MiniDSP site is a bit misleading in that case (Screen shot below). They sell the Arcana 4K with the FlexHT to show the Flex HT can handle any audio from it. When I looked up info on the Arcana they say it can take D.Atmos/DTS audio and convert it to PCM when sending it via its audio eARC OUT.

Arcana provides you eARC in case you don't have it already (or your eARC on say TV is screwed up). eARC has nothing to do with decoding.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

When I looked up info on the Arcana they say it can take D.Atmos/DTS audio and convert it to PCM when sending it via its audio eARC OUT.

There is no mention of it on the hdfury website nor in the arcana user guide.

In your case, apple TV can output LPCM and using eARC (if no built-in eARC support,with Arcana or other adapter such as the feintech I got), can be retrieved by the Flext HT.

The arcana will NOT perform audio conversion.

 

[Avp1]

Thanks. I guess the info on the MiniDSP site is a bit misleading in that case (Screen shot below). They sell the Arcana 4K with the FlexHT to show the Flex HT can handle any audio from it. When I looked up info on the Arcana they say it can take D.Atmos/DTS audio and convert it to PCM when sending it via its audio eARC OUT.


View attachment 480757




I am simply looking to transition to an independent Preamp/Amp at some point (no rush at the moment). I don't need more than 5 channel and maybe 7 max in future. So I figured I don't need to spend a lot on the 9/11/13 channel preamp setups that cost quite a bit more.

I'm glad I checked here. The sense I made of the info I read is that Flex HT could be my DAC. Arcana can decode multichannel audio without loss of quality and then I can send audio from Flex HT to a quality amp and have a high end Pre-Amp / Amp setup. (I lose some of the bells and whistles of an AVR, but I don't really need them). In return I get an top end DAC/preamp setup that fits my needs and a much lower price of perhaps an Antem PREamp.

It is often cheaper to buy AVR with pre-outs and use it as preamp than getting a dedicated preamp. Number of channels has very little influence on price of preamp or even AVR in today's market.

 

[rimmi2002]

Arcana provides you eARC in case you don't have it already (or your eARC on say TV is screwed up). eARC has nothing to do with decoding.

weird...in that case why are they send eARC directly to MiniDSP and saying it can

There is no mention of it on the hdfury website nor in the arcana user guide.

In your case, apple TV can output LPCM and using eARC (if no built-in eARC support,with Arcana or other adapter such as the feintech I got), can be retrieved by the Flext HT.

The arcana will NOT perform audio conversion.

yeah stupid of me to check that part through perplexity AI. It told me it did covert those formats to PCM and I believed like an idiot / Made sense how they advertised it with eARC.

Alternate question. I consume 95%+ of my media through Apple TV which I know converts everything to PCM...so can I just use that as my main source if I did want to go this route?

I guess I should have read this thread first. Sums it up really well. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...r-with-a-flex-ht-but-dont-recommend-it.59714/

 

[masterhw]

Alternate question. I consume 95%+ of my media through Apple TV which I know converts everything to PCM...so can I just use that as my main source if I did want to go this route?

Yes, that is almost exactly the recommended use case for this device. Many playback devices can decode up to 7.1 to LPCM natively, so can output to the MiniDSP happily. It is just getting into the weeds of things like TrueHD/DTS HD MA support, or getting height channels that you start to run into issues. But if that’s not your use case, then don’t sweat it!

 

[Matt S]

weird...in that case why are they send eARC directly to MiniDSP and saying it can

yeah stupid of me to check that part through perplexity AI. It told me it did covert those formats to PCM and I believed like an idiot / Made sense how they advertised it with eARC.

Alternate question. I consume 95%+ of my media through Apple TV which I know converts everything to PCM...so can I just use that as my main source if I did want to go this route?

I guess I should have read this thread first. Sums it up really well. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...r-with-a-flex-ht-but-dont-recommend-it.59714/

I have an HTx and consume a media via the Apple TV. I listen in 4.1 and can confirm that it sounds wonderful. Lots of potential to play around with Dirac and Device Console to get the sound just where you want it.