Minidsp advice needed.....

[Kidcharlamane767]

Hi...new to the forum. Enjoying the contributions.

I have built a small second system for my office. Small room, 8x11, with concrete behind one wall backing onto my garage. Lots of bad reflections.

2.1 channel system purchased in the last 2 months playing tidal and internet radio etc.

Bluesound node 2i - chord qutest- atoll in200 integrated amp - kef ls50 metas w/ b+w aws608 8" sub. I have put sound absorption on side walls/first reflections.

My issue: Bass integration is poor. Boomy blotchy lows. I am 99% sure there are many dips/nulls affecting vocal/imaging, also in various areas of the fq range...

I am pretty much sold on a minidsp -although if i had to do it over again a single flagship integrated with bass mgmt and room correction w/ decent dac like an anthem str may have been compelling. That ship has sailed.

Which one? Shd or shd studio.

Case for shd

Utilize shd for subwoofer dac, dedicated bass mgmt with low pass, allow for high pass to dac/mains. Allows for full control of crossover, fine tuning. Saves main amp headroom for high pass only, room correction adjustments.

Concerns/drawbacks: 2 types of dacs. Will they integrate well? Prefer a smaller form factor. Shd has some feature set i don't need. Forced to use volume control on shd.

Case shd studio

I would keep sub on my integrated pre outs. Use dirac on studio on blended mains with sub for bass integration, turning up sw to help minimize low frequencies going to mains. This solution lacks separate low pass/high pass benefit of shd. Prefer shd studio form factor. No concerns with dac matching (but may come back into play if sub dac purchased/tried).

Questions: Do I need a full shd? Will using dirac on my combined mains+sub (no high pass) via integrated w/shd studio work well? Has anyone had good experience with studio set up...did sub/lows integrate well in this way? Last, is it possible i like the shd dac enough to sell my qutest? (Prob will not sell qutest with either but wondering how good shd dac is).

What would you do?

Thanks in advance, and for sticking with my long winded post.

 

[zorak950]

You've already played around with the room position of the sub, yes? That would be the thing to do before anything else.

 

[Kidcharlamane767]

Good point. The suitable locations for the subwoofer are very small aesthetically (yes i am making some compromises for layout). I currently have it in the corner underneath and just to the left of the left speaker. I will experiment in moving it underneath or in between my mains to see if that will help. That back wall (where speakers are) is the one with concrete garage so i am sure those reflections are not helping me. I am thinking dsp could help unmuddy that mess. I will try moving sub, thank you.

Any thoughts on shd studio solution without high pass... Or is shd the better route. Concerned about 2 different dacs, miss timed signals/signatures with shd + aesthetically i am looking to tuck that box away.

Looking for validation, purchase reaffirmation i guess!!! Was leaning toward studio.....

 

[abdo123]

I would get the SHD and sell the Chord qutest.

 

[Kidcharlamane767]

Ok. I assume that is because the shd dac is that good (measures well based on amirm review). Based on your experience using shd? Interesting....

 

[Kidcharlamane767]

Bump

 

[Kidcharlamane767]

All....any further advice/comments on Shd - vs -shd studio with qutest with blended room correction.

I am close to buying studio as i want retain qutest ....

Question: Does anyone foresee a poor experience using studio, keeping sub on amp preeouts and utilizing dirac on L/R (no dedicated sub tuning)....+ keeping volume control at amp level.

Looking for confirmation or to be called off this approach.

 

[oursmagenta]

I wouldn't by pass Dirac for the sub. One of the strong point of Dirac also relies on the low-end spectrum optimization like peaks, dips (no to deep though) etc ...

And the shd have (by all account) pretty good dacs.

I mean you definitely won't hear any difference with your chord, if they are in the same ballpark in terms of transparency, because at 110+db of SINAD the shd won't be your weak link in the audio chain from source to ear, your speakers will and not by small a margin (think 80db of SINAD as a very, very conservative number).

The only "bad" point is that minidsp may not implement the new Dirac Live bass management feature in the shd.

 

[bluefuzz]

Which one? Shd or shd studio.

Alternatively, get rid of the Qutest and the Node 2i and get a NAD C658. You retain tthe nice BluOS interface as opposed to the buggy Volumio plus Dirac in the C658 has separate subwoofer channels that SHD does not have. Yes, the C658 has marginally less good SINAD as measured by Amir (on a broken example) but not an audible concern.

 

[oursmagenta]

Alternatively, get rid of the Qutest and the Node 2i and get a NAD C658. You retain tthe nice BluOS interface as opposed to the buggy Volumio plus Dirac in the C658 has separate subwoofer channels that SHD does not have. Yes, the C658 has marginally less good SINAD as measured by Amir (on a broken example) but not an audible concern.

The shd doesn't have a separate subwoofer channel?

 

[Kidcharlamane767]

Very interesting thoughts. Thank you. My concern would be the sq drop, sound sig change from qutest to nad. Qutest sounds pretty dam good, has an analog flavour to the sound ... would the NAD or SHD (non studio) really sound just as good? (Possible)

It begs the possible lightening rod question....is a dac is more than just measurement/sinad alone. I know topping D90 (good dac) is a well measured dac but some would say it has a clinical sig to it, qutest a bit more analog/warmer ....then there are r2r ladder dacs etc.

If nad/shd sound "different but just as good", i may be able to go with that....

I guess i can buy one and judge for myself before selling qutest...

I agree..if nad dac was just as good that could be a winner. Love the bass mgmt angle....

Great conversation thank you....hoping for more viewpoints....

 

[oursmagenta]

Very interesting thoughts. Thank you. My concern would be the sq drop, sound sig change from qutest to nad. Qutest sounds pretty dam good, has an analog flavour to the sound ... would the NAD or SHD (non studio) really sound just as good? (Possible)

It begs the possible lightening rod question....is a dac is more than just measurement/sinad alone. I know topping D90 (good dac) is a well measured dac but some would say it has a clinical sig to it, qutest a bit more analog/warmer ....then there are r2r ladder dacs etc.

If nad/shd sound "different but just as good", i may be able to go with that....

I guess i can buy one and judge for myself before selling qutest...

I agree..if nad dac was just as good that could be a winner. Love the bass mgmt angle....

Great conversation thank you....hoping for more viewpoints....

You won't hear any difference, as I said the distortion coming from your speakers will be way past the one introduced by any dac mentioned here, shd and c658 included.

 

[Kidcharlamane767]

I wouldn't by pass Dirac for the sub. One of the strong point of Dirac also relies on the low-end spectrum optimization like peaks, dips (no to deep though) etc ...

And the shd have (by all account) pretty good dacs.

I mean you definitely won't hear any difference with your chord, if they are in the same ballpark in terms of transparency, because at 110+db of SINAD the shd won't be your weak link in the audio chain from source to ear, your speakers will and not by small a margin (think 80db of SINAD as a very, very conservative number).

The only "bad" point is that minidsp may not implement the new Dirac Live bass management feature in the shd.

Thanks for the input. I wouldn't bypass my sub ... it would be part of the dirac shaped signal that is going to my integrated. Minddsp to qutest to int amp which will have both my mains and sub connected. Therefore the sig would be shaping the sub but not as a discrete configurable channel/aspect.

I would prob put my sub crossover at 80 and turn it up so the minidsp sends a decreased low signal to my int amp, lowering my bass from main amd moving that duty to my sub. In this case the studio is shaping the sub bass freq but combined with mains...

I am very interested in these dacs opinions...appears many here believe one does not need to pump $ into a dac for good sound....this has me thinking. Qutest being a sure thing though...hmmm.

 

[bluefuzz]

The shd doesn't have a separate subwoofer channel?

The Dirac implementation in the SHD is only two channel so subs are corrected as if they are part of the mains. In the C658 Dirac has 4 channels two mains and two subs so subs can be corrected independently of the mains. Whether it makes much of a difference in practise, I couldn't say. Neither the SHD or C658 have the much touted 'bass management' feature of Dirac as yet.

 

[bluefuzz]

My concern would be the sq drop, sound sig change from qutest to nad.

As has been discussed at great length on this site, DACs don't have a 'sound' and if they do they're broken. I would think it extremely unlikely you would be able (in a blind test) to hear any difference between the Qutest, SHD or C658 DACs. And once you start adding room correction with Dirac or similar then the 'sound' of the DAC becomes moot anyway ...

 

[Kidcharlamane767]

I appreciate the insight/viewpoint. i want to subscribe to that line of thinking - and just buy the C658... (still may do that)

....what confuses me is the qutest sounds significantly better than the DAC on my NODE 2i, mobile phone (LG V30) etc. Seemingly credible audio reviewers like Hans Beekhuyzen and a few others subscribe to " not all DAC's sound the same". (Hans is a fan of both C658 and SHD Studio w/ext DAC, interestingly enough)

To date, I have believed that 2 mechanical devices can execute to the same spec, but provide significant qualitative elements of difference in doing so. (I won't go down the road risking a patronizing car analogy...)

Dirac clearing out much of those differences is a very interesting point.

 

[JustJones]

While it isn't Dirac Bass management you can use the Minidsp SHD Studio to integrate subwoofers. You set them up in the SHD plugin, you can use REW to help and you run Dirac after. The only thing with the Studio you need another DAC for the subwoofers you wouldn't run them through the integrated amp.

 

[abdo123]

I believe 2 mechanical devices can execute to the same spec, but provide significant qualitative elements of difference in doing so. (I won't down the road risking a patronizing car analogy...)

Look, you can't come here asking for advice and at the same time dismiss us and the fundamental rule of this forum, evidence.

This statement is equivalent of the 'witch' next door saying her mood changes depending on what type of crystal is shoved in her vagina.

Every recommendation here is solely based on evidence, this has always been the criteria for purchasing something, don't be fooled.

 

[oursmagenta]

Look, you can't come here asking for advice and at the same time dismiss the fundamental rule of this forum, evidence.

This statement is equivalent of the 'witch' next door saying her mood changes depending on what type of crystal is shoved in her vagina.

Every recommendation here is solely based on evidence, this has always been the criteria for purchasing something, don't be fooled.

With some patience he will see the light... Or not .

 

[abdo123]

With some patience he will see the light... Or not .

Yeah but someone can't come bearing questions and when given the answers they're like 'I don't think so'.

Why bother?