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MiniDisc (MD) - Appreciation (Video)

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mononoaware

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and can you imagine that ATRAC could only manage 2:1 compression?

Edit: From the Wikipedia article
"ATRAC was devised for MiniDisc so that the same amount of audio a CD (which contains uncompressed 16-bit stereo linear PCM audio) can carry can fit on a disc far smaller. ATRAC reduces the 1.4 Mbit/s of a CD to a 292 kbit/s data stream, roughly a 5:1 reduction. "

I think when I jumped in when the “Net-MD” (USB cable drag-n-drop) model was the newest model in the shop at a premium and so I figure I was able to get a great deal on multiple players since it was towards the end of hope for MiniDisc.

Recording modes I remember were SP(Normal), LP2 and LP4.
And then PCM for 1:1.

SP used ATRAC compression but was meant to be indistinguishable from the source PCM.
Would be interesting to see how SP (292kbps ATRAC) compares to present day 320kbps MP3 (maybe it’s unfair since current day MP3 encoding must be much improved).
 
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StevenEleven

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I still have lots of minidisc gear, and a few hundred minidiscs with a ton of music dating back to my teenage years, including LPs, radio, and cassette tapes, and mixes from CDs, archived onto minidisc. So, thankfully, all of that is preserved! Until the beginning of the modern streaming era (2011-2012 in the U.S.?), they still got plenty of use.

I was a huge fan of the minidisc community page:

https://www.minidisc.org/whole_page.html

The minidisc community page was at one time teeming with ads, and news about evolving digital technology; controversy over copy-protection DRM that Sony did not lift until it was too late for them to maintain their position in the industry; evolution from ATRAC compression improvements as it fell behind to MP3 in the transparency wars; to lossless PCM recording, if only after Apple ate Sony’s lunch with the iPod; controversy over net-md “oppression,” the passage of the DMCA and its impact on the technology; ways to hack MD players and recorders to unlock features in the firmware that were reserved for more expensive models; Sony’s music division being accused of stifling the potential of the tech division due to piracy concerns; and obviously, I could go on. :p

I think perhaps Sony could have in many ways been what Apple has become if Sony had been less conservative about unleashing the full potential of the tech they had developed.:) But they were seemingly held back by concern about protecting Sony-owned media rights and lawsuits from other music industry media titans.

Apple saw the opening and took it—end of the clumsy Sony SonicStage software and the MD Walkman, after the 2001 birth of ITunes and the iPod.
 
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Pauper

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I used to use two Sony full width MD recorders on stage for backing tracks. Before this it was cassette tape which, trying to use live was a nightmare. When MD arrived it was bliss. They never glitched once in 10 years use.
 

AudioSceptic

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I think when I jumped in when the “Net-MD” (USB cable drag-n-drop) model was the newest model in the shop at a premium and so I figure I was able to get a great deal on multiple players since it was towards the end of hope for MiniDisc.

Recording modes I remember were SP(Normal), LP2 and LP4.
And then PCM for 1:1.

SP used ATRAC compression but was meant to be indistinguishable from the source PCM.
Would be interesting to see how SP (292kbps ATRAC) compares to present day 320kbps MP3 (maybe it’s unfair since current day MP3 encoding must be much improved).
MD came out in 1992, and so did DCC (Digital Compact Cassette from Philips). MP3 started in 1993 but didn't really take off until late 90s with the release of portable players like the Diamond Rio (32 MB!). DCC, which used the PASC data reduction system, was reckoned to sound better than MD, at least with the earlier versions of ATRAC, but was killed off in 1996 because it had failed to replace analogue cassette.

MD was slow to take off in the UK and didn't really become popular until the late 90s, by which time the MP3 portables had started to appear.

I doubt that ATRAC was as good as high bit-rate MP3 or AAC. More likely is that it was similar to MP2, as used in DAB radio.

If MD had gained traction in the computer world in the mid-90s and also introduced NetMD and Hi-MD soon after, it would have stood a chance. Perhaps the portable CD player would never have appeared, and MD would have dominated the low-mid end while the iPod created a new portable player high end.

I think we can agree that MD was a great idea but Sony did too little, too late.
 
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I still have lots of minidisc gear, and a few hundred minidiscs with a ton of music dating back to my teenage years, including LPs, radio, and cassette tapes, and mixes from CDs, archived onto minidisc. So, thankfully, all of that is preserved! Until the beginning of the modern streaming era (2011-2012 in the U.S.?), they still got plenty of use.

I was a huge fan of the minidisc community page:

https://www.minidisc.org/whole_page.html

The minidisc community page was at one time teeming with ads, and news about evolving digital technology; controversy over copy-protection DRM that Sony did not lift until it was too late for them to maintain their position in the industry; evolution from ATRAC compression improvements as it fell behind to MP3 in the transparency wars; to lossless PCM recording, if only after Apple ate Sony’s lunch with the iPod; controversy over net-md “oppression,” the passage of the DMCA and its impact on the technology; ways to hack MD players and recorders to unlock features in the firmware that were reserved for more expensive models; Sony’s music division being accused of stifling the potential of the tech division due to piracy concerns; and obviously, I could go on. :p

I think perhaps Sony could have in many ways been what Apple has become if Sony had been less conservative about unleashing the full potential of the tech they had developed.:) But they were seemingly held back by concern about protecting Sony-owned media rights and lawsuits from other music industry media titans.

Apple saw the opening and took it—end of the clumsy Sony SonicStage software and the MD Walkman, after the 2001 birth of ITunes and the iPod.

Good read.
Seems like you dived deeper than I did, and had a fun time as well.

I also had forgotten about the innovative design of the original iPod (shown in the video), that makes it look exactly like a speaker.
(Reminded me of a white Yamaha HS Series Studio-monitor)
ipod-2nd-gen.png

-
s-l640.jpg
 
OP
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MD came out in 1992, and so did DCC (Digital Compact Cassette from Philips). MP3 started in 1993 but didn't really take off until late 90s with the release of portable players like the Diamond Rio (32 MB!). DCC, which used the PASC data reduction system, was reckoned to sound better than MD, at least with the earlier versions of ATRAC, but was killed off in 1996 because it had failed to replace analogue cassette.

MD was slow to take off in the UK and didn't really become popular until the late 90s, by which time the MP3 portables had started to appear.

I doubt that ATRAC was as good as high bit-rate MP3 or AAC. More likely is that it was similar to MP2, as used in DAB radio.

If MD had gained traction in the computer world in the mid-90s and also introduced NetMD and Hi-MD soon after, it would have stood a chance. Perhaps the portable CD player would never have appeared, and MD would have dominated the low-mid end while the iPod created a new portable player high end.

I think we can agree that MD was a great idea but Sony did too little, too late.

Thanks for all the information.

Yeah I assume the same as well, modern day MP3 will likely kick ATRAC’s butt.

Regarding portable CD, not sure how all the timelines overlap but I remember already having a Discman (Sony portable CD player).
And so when I saw the MiniDisc players on “clearance” I thought they were amazingly compact light weight alternative.
I always thought it was odd seeing other’s with their sensitive bulky Portable CD players, “how come nobody else is using MiniDisc??” I thought.

The experience must have been in some weird spot within time and space.
 
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Archsam

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I have a Sony MZ-N707 that I bought soon after I graduated from university. I used it daily on my commute to work and loved it. I then bought my first ipod around 2005, the minidisc player went into its box and stayed in my closet for over a decade.

My two ipods (ipod 4G and ipod classic) died over a decade ago, both from harddrive failures. 2 years ago I took out the little Sony, pop in a fresh AA battery and it works faultlessly. Very impressed.
 

StevenEleven

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I have a Sony MZ-N707 that I bought soon after I graduated from university. I used it daily on my commute to work and loved it. I then bought my first ipod around 2005, the minidisc player went into its box and stayed in my closet for over a decade.

My two ipods (ipod 4G and ipod classic) died over a decade ago, both from harddrive failures. 2 years ago I took out the little Sony, pop in a fresh AA battery and it works faultlessly. Very impressed.

I‘ll tell you what—I used to keep a minidisc or two for quick listening in my pants pockets. They are small enough that you can forget to take them out. A minidisc can make it through the washer and dryer and still play perfectly!! Try to put an iPod or an iPhone or a CD through the washer and dryer and tell me how that goes. . . :)

FWIW, ATRAC compression improved over time by quite a bit, but I would say only to near-transparency, but not quite full transparency on careful ABX with difficult samples. Lots of the ABX testing included ATRAC while the Hydrogen.org folks were developing LAME MP3. ATRAC slowly lost ground to MP3. But it was close enough that if you were not an ABX-nut you could enjoy the music in a full hi-fi kind of way. I remember one of those English Hifi mags writing that a Sony ES minidisc deck made recordings that sounded better than the original CD!! Nonsense of course, but it caused a stir. My best MD deck gives you a choice of three anti-aliasing filters on playback (among many, many other fine-tuning options on record and playback)!! :cool:
 
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OP
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I used it daily on my commute

Yep daily commute as well.
On the bus.

I then bought my first ipod around 2005,

I also moved on to a Sony Walkman MP3 Player (which still works to this day), the size of a card and maybe about as thick as 8 cards stacked.

I never really caught onto the original iPod.
First encounter was around 2015 when I saw one sitting in the drawer at friends place, I asked about it and said it’s probably broken so I can have it.
I charged it>turned it on and was overwhelmed by the amount of songs on it.

It ended up in another drawer until I took it to Apple as part of their recycle program, they were happy to accept it.

Pretty sure it was this one, 4th gen I think according to Apple’s “identify” page.
ipod-clickwheel-hold-switch.png
 
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OP
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Sony ES minidisc deck made recordings that sounded better than the original CD!!

I still have a few blank “ES” labeled MiniDiscs, they are white and gold color.
So that’s what they were for. . . The “ES” Deck.

At the time of purchase I just assumed they were the “best” quality MiniDiscs.
(I mean they do have the words “High Quality” on them)
3642007688_746eae5391_k_d.jpg
 
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AudioSceptic

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Thanks for all the information.

Yeah I assume the same as well, modern day MP3 will likely kick ATRAC’s butt.

Regarding portable CD, not sure how all the timelines overlap but I remember already having a Discman (Sony portable CD player).
And so when I saw the MiniDisc players on “clearance” I thought they were amazingly compact light weight alternative.
I always thought it was odd seeing other’s with their sensitive bulky Portable CD players, “how come nobody else is using MiniDisc??” I thought.

The experience must have been in some weird spot within time and space.
You are right. The first Sony portable CD player was in 1984, much earlier than I thought, perhaps because I was still recording vinyl LP onto cassette for use in the car! Even if I had CDs then, I wouldn't have taken them away from home. Too expensive to get damaged or lost, and too much bulk if you want a decent choice on the move.

Rereading the Wikipedia article, it seems the lack of prerecorded MDs was a major factor in its initial failure to take off, and early competition with DCC just confused everyone. Nobody wanted another format war so there was a lot of wait-and-see.
 

Doodski

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I took out the little Sony, pop in a fresh AA battery and it works faultlessly. Very impressed.
At the rates when purchasing lubricants from the Sony Tools Catalogue one would think they should last forever! Prices are through the roof but in some instances only that stuff does the job.
 

Chrispy

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I left a battery in my minidisc inadvertantly (had been running it off powered cradle anyways) and now it's bit the dust, won't work now off the powered cradle either. Have a few boxes of blanks as well as quite a few recorded. Anyone interested?
 
OP
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The first Sony portable CD player was in 1984, much earlier than I thought,

Makes sense, since the Discman I had was one of those modern round & thin models, with a remote identical to the MiniDisc player I had (cylinder shape like a AA battery but longer and with an LCD display and “twistable” ring used to change tracks).

Very similar to below. I even remember that color border on the inside, but I remember the overall colour being more blueish. . . Human memory is terribly unreliable. . .

bb7027c57ee609f654b2f35f621e6b07.jpg

-
41PEDEDRQGL._AC_.jpg



Even if I had CDs then, I wouldn't have taken them away from home. Too expensive to get damaged or lost, and too much bulk if you want a decent choice on the move.

From what I remember at the time, everyone was carrying around Portable CD players. So I guess the Compact Disc with it’s shiny thin silhouette won over the masses.
(Nobody wanted something that reminded them of a Floppy disc even if it was more durable than a CD and lighter in weight overall by not needing much of a case - MiniDisc)

it seems the lack of prerecorded MDs was a major factor in its initial failure to take off

Japan was the probably the only place where they were able to actually sell (move stock).
 
Last edited:

AudioSceptic

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I have a Sony MZ-N707 that I bought soon after I graduated from university. I used it daily on my commute to work and loved it. I then bought my first ipod around 2005, the minidisc player went into its box and stayed in my closet for over a decade.

My two ipods (ipod 4G and ipod classic) died over a decade ago, both from harddrive failures. 2 years ago I took out the little Sony, pop in a fresh AA battery and it works faultlessly. Very impressed.
I did the same with my MD portable yesterday, reminded about it by this very thread! It was fun playing an MD that I hadn't taken out of its case since 2005. My only iPod was a 20 GB 4th gen in 2005. I used it until the iPhone had more than 20 GB, when I bought my first iPhone, a 3Gs with 32 GB in 2009. I now have an iPhone with 512 GB, which can hold all of our music at AA 256.

I still remember being stunned by the first iPod, though. 5 GB (10 GB soon after) in that gorgeous, tiny thing, but I just couldn't justify the cost at the time. The "classic" iPods had 1.8" HDDs, and the Mini had a 1" Microdrive. Seemed like something sent back from the future.
 

AudioSceptic

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Makes sense, since the Discman I had was one of those modern round & thin models, with a remote identical to the MiniDisc player I had (cylinder shape like a AA battery but longer and with an LCD display and “twistable” ring used to change tracks).

Very similar to below. I even remember that color border on the inside, but I remember the overall colour being more blueish. . . Human memory is terribly unreliable. . .

bb7027c57ee609f654b2f35f621e6b07.jpg

-
41PEDEDRQGL._AC_.jpg





From what I remember at the time, everyone was carrying around Portable CD players. So I guess the Compact Disc with it’s shiny thin silhouette won over the masses.
(Nobody wanted something that reminded them of a Floppy disc even if it was more durable than a CD and lighter in weight overall by not needing much of a case - MiniDisc)

Japan was the probably the only place where they were able to actually sell (move stock).
Maybe, but CDs are just too big to carry a selection around with you. It might've appealed to me using MP3/AAC on CD-RW, so I could get a decent amount on one disc, but then the iPod came along...
 

StevenEleven

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I still have a few blank “ES” labeled MiniDiscs, they are white and gold color.
So that’s what they were for. . . The “ES” Deck.

At the time of purchase I just assumed they were the “best” quality MiniDiscs.
(I mean they do have the words “High Quality” on them)

Collecting cool looking minidiscs of all brands, colors and styles was half of the fun! An assortment from my collection (with no duplicates?):


index.php
 
OP
mononoaware

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Collecting cool looking minidiscs of all brands, colors and styles was half of the fun! Ann assortment from my collection (with no duplicates):


index.php

I had a few of these coloured ones. The “ES” discs looked bland in comparison, but I am ok with bland, at least when you end up sticking on the table of contents. . .
Then the white blended with the white and it was nicely minimalist.
 
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