Mini-Desktop PCs (Intel NUCs) as an A/V source, and for managing/editing files.

[Xulonn]

At my age (77 y/o) I am astounded by the progress of computing/digital technology - and especially data storage - since I purchased both my first PC (an original IBM-PC with a pair of 360K, 5.25" floppy disk drives and 256K of RAM), and my first CD player, in 1984. I was 42 y/o at that time!

Intel NUC's are small desktop PCs built around laptop CPU's, HDDs or SDDs, and compact DIMM memory. I believe that Intel sells most of them as "barebones" meaning they need data storage, memory, and an OS to be usable. This creates excellent opportunities for value-added resellers or hobbyists, and makes customization simple without having to pay for things you don't want, and then remove and replace them. For the new NUC, I will use an old Windows license from an old laptop that is not worth repairing.

My HTPC is a five year-old Intel Celeron CPU NUC5CPYH in a dual-boot configuration that runs either either Daphile (for music) or LibreElec/Kodi (for video.) It's not very powerful, but works fine for all of my audio files, which are 24/96 FLAC maximum. It also serves adequately for the 1080p video with two channel audio that I watch on a 40" LCD TV. My older, slower NUC with it's 32Gb SSD and access to my Synology NAS, is perfectly suitable for streaming bit-perfect digital audio via USB to my Topping DX7s DAC/HA in my small room with its seven-foot ceiling. If anyone is looking for a low-cost solution similar to my HTPCAudio PC, these older Celeron NUCs are a very reliable bargain.

My new desktop PC - still "under construction" - is a tiny 4.6" x 4.4" x 2" tall Intel NUC8i7BEH ($350, "used, like new" barebones unit from Amazon). Storage is a 1Tb M.2 SSD ($96). I am currently waiting for a pair of double-row 8Gb DIMMs ($67) to finish the build, and will use a recycled copy of the Windows 10 OS. My total cost will be about $550 including the shipping (forwarding) of the separate components to Panama. I hope to sell the Lenovo for $300, making this a $250 upgrade from a much bigger Lenovo ThinkCentre desktop PC to a powerful little NUC that takes up very little space on my desktop. It's also nice to have a pair of laptop-style pinhole microphones on the front for Skype or WhatsApp phone calls (using the WhatsApp Windows companion app).

My much larger (14" x 14" x 3.5") Lenovo Intel i7 ThinkCentre has an internal DVD/CD drive, but the NUC has no space for an internal optical disk drive. Indeed, the NUC's footprint is actually a fair bit smaller than the $22 external CD/DVD read/write unit (5.6" x 5.6") that is also on its way to me.

The external USB-3 external DVD/CD drive will be kept in a desk drawer for the rare occasions when I need to read and/or rip or copy anything to SS storage. I didn't get BluRay capability because decent units start at about $70-80. I can download BD movies via torrent or my newsgroup reader if that shows up as a problem and I am not able to read or rip a physical disk. I will also rip any remaining CD's and DVD's from my closet, and store the files on my NAS with a physically separated external SSD for backup.

My new NUC will be used for everyday general computer work and for audio file edting. I have many thousands of audio files in various formats and bit rates that I have collected over 20+ years. I normally replace what I can with new downloads, but enjoy editing. I use a combination of "Ant Renamer" for batch file renaming, "Music Brainz Picard" for auto-replacing or adding metadata based on streaming industry standards. I also use "Directory Opus," an excellent Australian dual-pane file manager, for handling the files and organizing the whole mess.

The NUC is not yet finished, because I accidentally ordered desktop DIMMs, and those memory modules were longer than the NUC is wide. The 80mm 1Tb M.2 drive is tiny, and installed. There is actually room for a 2.5" HDD or SDD in the tall NUC, but I purchased the tall version just to have a little extra space for cooling. (You can also purchase aftermarket lids - LINK - with USB, HDMI, Ethernet, VGA or RS232 ports with cables that connect inside the NUC.)

The 8th generation i7 Intel NUCs have a reputation for running hot, and are not really suitable for serious gaming or video editing, because they are too small and do not have slots for super high-performance graphics cards. And the efforts I have seen to add more cooling were not very effective.

But for my general and audio editing purposes - and probably also for anyone who wants to play back hi-res audio and video files, a NUC like mine is perfect. (One reviewer preferred the lower rated NUC8i5 version, and said that he found the performance difference to be minimal, and it ran cooler. He suggested that even the latest i3 might work for many users.)

Let's use this thread for general Intel NUC discussions - especially for those of us who live in the Americas. Intel will be around for a while, and NUCs already have a history of good long-term support and continuing development and evolution. I think they are an excellent match for many of the new compact high performance audio components, and NUCs support many operating systems.

 

[Tks]

Now if only Intel can straighten out it's 10nm node process and stop this 14nm++++ milking, we might be astounded as you were.

Speaking of NUC's though. This one astounds me to this day (sans silly branding which can be remedied with a faceplate swap provided). This is virtually a desktop replacement even for heavy workloads somewhat. The amount if I/O connections is insane for something of this form factor.. Could technically be used in a stack if you run an amp/dac stack that doesn't generate much heat like some of the modern devices.

 

[Xulonn]

Speaking of NUC's though. This one astounds me to this day

An incredible machine, indeed! However, it costs about $800 more than mine, and runs hot as Hades.

Apparently it is far more suitable for gaming than mine. But for A/V use, there are ways to throttle it back a bit so it runs cooler.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Now if only Intel can straighten out it's 10nm node process and stop this 14nm++++ milking, we might be astounded as you were.

Speaking of NUC's though. This one astounds me to this day (sans silly branding which can be remedied with a faceplate swap provided). This is virtually a desktop replacement even for heavy workloads somewhat. The amount if I/O connections is insane for something of this form factor.. Could technically be used in a stack if you run an amp/dac stack that doesn't generate much heat like some of the modern devices.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...ss-is-on-track-so-is-shift-in-business-model/

10 nm sorted supposedly.

 

[Tks]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...ss-is-on-track-so-is-shift-in-business-model/

10 nm sorted supposedly.

These sorts of reports have been on going since 2016, multiple abandoning of roadmaps and just constant lies from Intel

 

[restorer-john]

My HTPC is a five year-old Intel Celeron CPU NUC5CPYH

It's funny you mention it, I just yesterday got out an unused NUC5CPYH (still in its box with plastic wrap on the unit), which was a spare when we set up a call centre with about 15 of them about 5/6 years or so ago. Not one has failed or caused any issues. Fabulous little things.

Anyway, it's a 256GB/8GB unit and I fought with W10 1903 updates yesterday. So, eventually just created a UEFI bootable (Rufus) USB of the latest W10 .iso and it was installed in <20 minutes. All the devices (on board) were set up within a few minutes automatically after initial install- no need to pull them from Intel. Gotta love that. Normally you have at least one or several yellow exclamation marks signifying a missing driver or unknown device. Well done Intel.

I mounted it on its bracket on the back of a LG 24" IPS and along with a wireless keyboard/touchpad it may make a cool little kitchen recipe computer or a spare machine for the boys to do homework.

 

[KozmoNaut]

I use a ~2012 vintage Lenovo Thinkcentre as my HTPC/Media center, upgraded with more RAM and an SSD, it runs nice and quiet.

I've installed KDE Neon (based on Ubuntu Linux) and Kodi on it, which handles both music and video quite well, pulling from my NAS. The Kore remote app for Android is all I need in day-to-day use. Once the config is up and running, Kodi will scan for content and download information and cover art automatically.

For something I got for free, the Thinkcentre has exceeded all my expectations.

 

[captain paranoia]

I'm cheap. $550 sounds like a lot of money to me. NUCs are cute, but you do seem to pay a premium for that cuteness.

Old notebooks (£17), cheap Android media boxes (£33) and PCs salvaged from skips (£0) are more up my street... I've also been thinking about repurposing thin client boxes.

 

[Neddy]

Good topic - esp software recommendations/comments - to share experiences.
Like you, my first PC builds date back to the 80s...these things are amazing.

I just got a NUC6i7 32GB 250GB SS, no OS, abt $425 off EB, for audio.

I chose the skull canyon format b/c I need it to fit in a 1U rack space (shelf), the other formats are too tall for that.
(My main PC is a 10yr old custom build cyberpower monster, which at least has been easy to upgrade (and has needed it!)
I may add a larger M2 drive (agree those things are tiny! and it can hold 2 of 'em!)

BTW, the Intel page listing all NUC models was critical to figuring out which one to focus on:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/kits.html

One thing that impressed me right away (aside from the size) is that all the necessary/more or less permanent connections are on the back, while the ones that I might access from time to time are on the front.
No doubt the cables connected will outweigh the thing, so will need to be 'stuck' down somehow

I'll be running W10 and JR, maybe also MB, and accessing 1-2TB of music from a share drive on another PC (for now).
Haven't decided on EQ software, but only need it for the 5 surround channels (mains and sub are downstream of DAC).

Regarding W10 Home OS: any recommendations for best/cheapest source for clean licensed copies?

Amazon,etc ~ $100, but I see various resellers offering them for around $30.
I've read that some of those resellers are legit, so could use a reference for one that is reliable (and MS has enough of my $ already).

I'm still a week or so away from loading it up - have to finish building the rack first! - so looking for config/software comments/recommendations, for sure.

 

[Xulonn]

Regarding W10 Home OS: any recommendations for best/cheapest source for clean licensed copies?

Amazon,etc ~ $100, but I see various resellers offering them for around $30.
I've read that some of those resellers are legit, so could use a reference for one that is reliable (and MS has enough of my $ already).

I just did some research on Windows licensing and license transfer, and it appears that the only guaranteed legal license transfer option without restriction is to own a copy that was purchased separately or bundled as a stand-alone item with a computer. Previously used Windows OEM licenses, upgraded to new versions or not - are not legally transferable. When you first use a computer and register Windows, Microsoft knows where the OS with your activation key lives.

I plan to buy a $26 "surplus, unused" Windows home OEM license from Kinguin, a legal reseller in the EU, which includes a guarantee that the license will work. Windows 10 Professional is not much more expensive.

Rather than interpret the details, here are links to my findings:

LINK1
LINK2
LINK3
LINK4

 

[Jinjuku]

One of the nice things about the NUC is they are designed and promoted for Digital Signage which means they are intended to run 24X7. Put a ton of these out there as Point of Sale and Kiosk.

Only ever had one brick on me and Intel had it swapped out in less than a week.

With a SSD the Celeron based units are very quick for your standard playback usage.

 

[restorer-john]

I just did some research on Windows licensing and license transfer, and it appears that the only guaranteed legal license transfer option without restriction is to own a copy that was purchased separately or bundled as a stand-alone item with a computer. Previously used Windows OEM licenses, upgraded to new versions or not - are not legally transferable. When you first use a computer and register Windows, Microsoft knows where the OS with your activation key lives.

You can still use any old Windows7 Home OEM or standalone Product Key for activation on W10 home. That's why the Windows 7 COA stickers are nearly as expensive as buying an actual copy of W10.

But you can find old W7 boxes with stickers at the recyclers for nothing, or close to it.

There is no difference as far a licensing goes if you were to 'upgrade' to W10 from W7 either on the box you find at the side of the road or destroy that old machine and upgrade to a new one. There is only one instance of the OS in use and MS provides the upgrade path for you to W10. The licensing conditions I've read allow you to move/transfer the OS license to a new machine for upgrade purposes as long as the OS is removed from the old machine.

 

[captain paranoia]

I've also been thinking about repurposing thin client boxes.

Just been watching YouTube videos about installing Win7/Win8/Win10 onto an HP T510, which you can pick up refurbished for about £25. or an HP T620, or Dell Wyse 5010, which go for about £35

Obviously nowhere near as much grunt as a modern NUC, but probably adequate as a simple server.

 

[ElNino]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but is it true that you don't need a Windows license for Windows 10, as long as you're willing to put up with a few user interface quirks? I've read that Windows 10 will operate unregistered perpetually if you don't have an activation code, but the desktop wallpaper can't be set and there are restrictions in the control panel. Is this still true, assuming it was true at some point (I could be wrong)? For casual home hobbyiest headless use it would seem that running in this configuration might be good enough?

 

[Jinjuku]

Ok, here goes:

For the longest time I paid the premium for Windows 10 Pro. One major reason was, in local machine policy, I could drill down to the 'Windows Consumer Experience' and turn it off. So no "Candy Crush Saga" and assorted games like that would show up.

Years go by and all the sudden, on all my machines, and ones I had sold, all that stuff started showing up. I go into local machine policy and find out that it's now ghosted out with a message that the WCE is now only available with Enterprise or Ultimate edition.

With that said. Just go to Ebay, search for Windows 10 Professional Refurb License and buy a license that will fully activate for ~ $5 U.S.D.

It's the least I can do to give M$ the middle finger.

 

[KozmoNaut]

There are alternatives to Windows.

I've been using one or another form of Linux-based OS since ~2001.

 

[restorer-john]

Obviously nowhere near as much grunt as a modern NUC, but probably adequate as a simple server.

The modern NUCs are quite powerful, but they are in danger of straying from their minimalist, low power, almost fanless tiny design and, as you say, they aren't cheap. But they are reliable.

I've got a few (3) older Dell Zino 410HDs here (nearly 9 years old now) and we still use one for our HTPC running W7 (quad core AMD Phenom?/6GB/1TB HDD/graphics card and onboard BluRay drive all in a tiny little unit.). It's been a fabulous unit and runs our Netflix/NAS movies and sometimes even some serious work. It is a bit clunky for web browsing these days however. Currently it is sending HDMI to our Samsung panel which loops LPCM out its TosLink to a Rotel DAC and integrated stereo amplifier for movies/TV.

They still bring quite a bit of money on the 2nd hand market due to their all-in-one and very cute form factor.

 

[Neddy]

Good point - I should have mentioned that: used NUCs don't vary much in sold pricing on EB, other than older SS drives not adding as much value, same with memory, but to a much lesser degree. I targeted the NUC6 generation as being 'just new' enough and affordable.
A large % of the ones offered seem to have gobs of ram - mine has 32G, but saw several with up to 128GB in 'em. The ones with both large SSDs and ram were selling for more than my target max (about $400)...for 2-3 yr old models.
Funny how EB sold pricing can be used to - very roughly - indicate durability+/-popularity of some things; I've found that used Festool, Hudson Bay blankets, Bryston amps, and pro JBL stuff maintain pretty steady values over the years (and some used Festool stuff sells for right around new prices!).
So, yes, there are far better choices (and options) for nice used/reconditioned PCs out there (as mentioned above); I was sorely tempted by the Wyse thin client machines, but the NUC fit my 1U slot requirement better.
Good tip on EB for used W10 licenses - that's probably what I'll buy!

 

[Old Listener]

The modern NUCs are quite powerful, but they are in danger of straying from their minimalist, low power, almost fanless tiny design and, as you say, they aren't cheap. But they are reliable.

On newegg.com I see current models using Celeron CPUs, I3 CPUs, I5 CPUs and I7 CPUs. The existence of a gamer model or two is not at the expense of models with "minimalist, low power, almost fanless tiny design".

 

[digicidal]

An incredible machine, indeed! However, it costs about $800 more than mine, and runs hot as Hades.
Apparently it is far more suitable for gaming than mine. But for A/V use, there are ways to throttle it back a bit so it runs cooler.

Or you can do like I did with every workstation in my office... buy Akasa passive cases for them and they are 100% silent under every condition. I got sick and tired of having projects constantly derailed by inane end-user support issues (it's a very small company - so I'm the entire IT department, as well as lead developer, operations manager, DBA, and so on). Basically, if it's not a human resource... it's my problem - and even many of those are actually, as well.

So I bit the bullet (both time and money-wise) and built a set of these for everyone. Only went with 5th gen i5 versions (NUC5i5RYK) and the cases were $2K by themselves (for all of them - not each)... but now I've got 3 of them for every 2 employees... all images deploy and restore latest copy if they're replaced... so I never have more than a 10 minute interruption if someone's workstation dies. So far only had one die and the board was replaced with one from a stack I bought on clearance when the 6th gen NUCs dropped, and is in the backup pool now.

No more dusting, fan failures, noise complaints, etc. Plus a stupid-cheap UPS ($100 APC unit) will run a NUC and 27" LED display for about 2 hours - probably longer (I just sent everyone home at that point... and moved offices when the lease ended).

I wouldn't play games on any of them (but I wouldn't on the Hades Canyon NUC's either). There's a reason a real gaming PC will never have an external PSU... because whether you're talking PC gaming hardware or audio amplification... the real fun starts around 1kW.