Mind Blown. What next?

[2Sunny]

Okay just finished setting up my new Revel Concerta2 5.2.4 surround sound system with F36 towers, and M16 bookshelves, and here's the crazy story. My son is really good at guitar having played at Radio City Music Hall good. One of his oldest and most favorite songs is Hotel California. I had him come play first then he and I listened to my old speakers playing the song through Spotify then we hooked up the new speakers connected through an OutLaw 5000x amp. I was worried I spent a couple grand and wouldn't hear any difference. Thankfully and to no surprise for the regulars here my mind was blown at the difference. The Revels made it sound like the performers were in the room just as if my son was playing live; he even played along for awhile and honestly no difference to my ears.

I couldn't be happier.

But . . .

Here's my question.

The good Lord has blessed me with good fortune when it comes to money. I'm not Bezo's rich or even close, but I can drop another $6k without too much concern . . . so . . .

What speakers would folks recommend I try next in the $4k to $6k per pair range that they believe would provide enough difference that I will notice. For those who haven't followed any part of the recent poll I started I should mention that it is my belief that these speakers I just bought, Revel F36, represent the peak performance that I can perceive. Or put another way I really do want to try more expensive speakers because clearly I had no idea what I was missing until today, but if I am honest with myself I am already biased in believing I will not be able to hear any difference.

Anyways, as always, I'm eager to hear what folks here have to say about my ideas as well as the recommendations for speakers in the $3k to 6k region worth trying. My first inclination is just to buy a pair of Revel Performa 228Be's. Of course, it is also possible I could go and demo some high end speakers as well, and that might save me a ton of money. Trouble is those sound rooms are so optimized I'm sure to be easily impressed and then Ill end up walking away with a $100k speaker - JK!

 

[Power Pop 23]

Consider enjoying what you have and waiting to see if Revel updates their lines of loudspeakers in 2025. Revel confirmed to Madrona Digital that the Performa3 series would see a replacement but not 'when'.

 

[kyuu]

Agree, you have an excellent system and I would hold off on the upgrade-itis to actually enjoy it for a while. You'll have to spend a lot to get a meaningful upgrade, IMO, and you're kicking into decreasing returns territory.

One thing you should look at, if you haven't, is a good room correction solution. The Sony doesn't have one. That will be the biggest upgrade you can make.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Whatever you do, do not listen to anything more expensive until you are ready to purchase... once you do, you will no longer be able to enjoy what you have!

And until then, as others have said, simply revel in the amazing concerts you will enjoy with your new set of speakers.

 

[Keith_W]

One thing you should look at, if you haven't, is a good room correction solution. The Sony doesn't have one. That will be the biggest upgrade you can make.

Agree, addressing room related problems is the next step. That means - get a mic, learn to use REW, consider DSP.

DSP is a huge rabbit hole, and the best part of it is - after you have spent money acquiring software licenses and equipment, all upgrades after that are free. Improvements in the way you take your measurements and how/what you correct will result in better sound without having to spend a cent, and it will change the way you view this hobby.

Some criticisms of your setup:

- the centre channel speaker is mounted way too high
- those height speakers - shouldn't they be somewhere else in the room?
- subwoofers may / may not be in the best position in the room - some measurement is required.
- those two model planes are on a collision course.

 

[Mort]

Also consider in the $6k range, Ascend Acoustics ELX or a Philharmonic Audio HT with subwoofers.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I would say you have a good system now and the next great improvement is placement then room treatment for the money. Don't spend a dime
on anything except those two things first. Placement won't cost anything and a little room treatment after a few measurements will really make you
happy especially considering what a few wall resonators and diffusers will cost. Treatment will carry over if you decide on different gear.

Personally, I wouldn't. If you think it sounds good now you will really enjoy the cost and results with just a little tinkering.

Have fun

Regards

 

[alex-z]

You have great speakers, I wouldn't even consider changing them.

1. Relocate your height channels. They will perform much better when mounted on the walls and aimed down.

2. Experiment with spreading out the front L/R for a wider stereo image. This will decrease the ratio of direct vs reflected sound, absorption panels throughout the room can help restore that and balance your decay times. Measure the system before buying/building acoustic treatment, an $80 UMIK-1 + Room EQ Wizard is all you need.

3. Maybe get rid of the entertainment stand. By wall mounting the TV and shelf mounting the centre channel you get the speaker closer to ear level and reduce unwanted early reflections.

4. A better AV receiver. The Sony units don't have particularly good room correction. A Denon X3800H is $1500, and the Dirac Live + Bass Control package is another $600.

 

[2Sunny]

Thanks as always for the input everyone. Much appreciated always. A few notes.

-I did recently buy a UMIK-1 and plan on learning to use REW so theres that.

-I've tried the front speakers separated to the room edges and everywhere in between and like the sound stage best right where they are.

-The front heights are where they are for reasons of happy wife. She will not permit wall mounting anywhere near the wall lights which came from her childhood home, and as it is I have tested scenes from Midway, Unbroken, Incredibles 2, Roma, and many others and the Atmos effect is excellent although I'm sure it could be even better if I could wall mount the front heights, but its just not an option for me

-I choose the Sony AVR for the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping. If you have a HT and haven't tried this then you are missing out. It is amazing and WAY better than DIRAC which I used on my old Onkyo TX-NR7100 which I had prior to the Sony. I'm sure for music other AVRs would be better, but for movies the Sony ES series with 360 SSM can't be beat in my mind.

-The entertainment center and position of the center channel are a must for reasons of marital stability as well, BUT I previously had a smaller Klipsch that I tilted downward and the Sony 360 SSM absolutely put the "phantom" sound dead center of the MLP. The unit in the picture is a Kef R2 Meta that I thought would fit, but turns out it is too big so I ordered an Ascend Acoustics Duo V2 LCR which is much smaller and which should allow me to tilt it down as I did the Klipsch. I expect Sony 360 SSM will adjust that perfectly as well.

-I promise to test the subwoofers once I learn how to us REW, but research online shows the current position is probably the ideal one.

-I retired when I got the Big C 2 years ago, but prior to that I was a Captain for United on the two planes that are colliding; the last job was a B777 cap. It was way fun, and I really am sorry I had to retire almost a decade early but at least now I have more time to enjoy my hobbies. The YouTube video is me landing in Poznan Poland carrying some 300 U.S. troops on a militay charter out of Kansas.

I do have a follow on question for the forum though:

In my search for expensive speaker options I'm spending a lot of time looking at ON AXIS spinorama graphs. When I see dips or rises of say 2.8 dB is that really noticeable? The reason I ask is because looking online I find that some folks studying sound technology say the human ear really can't discern anything less than a 3dB change. Do folks here agree? Is 3 dB kinda the threshold worth looking for on a spinorama ON AXIS graphs?

 

[regan]

Or put another way I really do want to try more expensive speakers because clearly I had no idea what I was missing until today, but if I am honest with myself I am already biased in believing I will not be able to hear any difference.

Umik + minidsp flex + dirac/rew and it's literally game over. And yeah, you will hear the difference.

 

[Crook]

What dog do you have a Bass-et Hound? I've already got my coat.

 

[Timcognito]

 

[Mort]

My AI summary of that video ended with this:

 

[2Sunny]

Umik + minidsp flex + dirac/rew and it's literally game over. And yeah, you will hear the difference.

No disrespect intended but unless you've tried Sony's 360 SSM you don't know the difference from DIRAC live. I've had DIRAC Live on an Onkyo and to me in a room where speakers are not ideally placed Sony's 360 SSM kills. The sound stage literally becomes a bubble and bullets aren't all around you they are actually in front of you when watching the bombing scene from Midway.

 

[2Sunny]

What dog do you have a Bass-et Hound? I've already got my coat.

I have Corgis

 

[thulle]

I have Corgis

View attachment 438716

I see some visible cracks in the chest fur on the middle corgi, has there been any public statements from the corgi dealership if this is according to spec? Seems like it might be a recurring issue with woofers!

(just a joke regarding some genelec drama)

Lovely lookin fellas

 

[Oddball]

No disrespect intended but unless you've tried Sony's 360 SSM you don't know the difference from DIRAC live. I've had DIRAC Live on an Onkyo and to me in a room where speakers are not ideally placed Sony's 360 SSM kills. The sound stage literally becomes a bubble and bullets aren't all around you they are actually in front of you when watching the bombing scene from Midway.

Game is never truly over. Even if you complete it there is usually 2.0 (even if from different vendor) if the player/payer wants to invest additional funds and participate.

From other forums I understand that there are many happy Sony 360 SSM followers, some of then coming from much more complicated setups, aka they probably (hopefully) know what they are doing. As far as 3D re-mapping, that is usually helpful when speaker placement is not optimal. Trinnov has it but not many Trinnov users are using it, or feel some benefit from it, probably because they have their Perlisten and alike speakers OCD positioned anyway. Yamaha and YPAO claim the 3D re-mapping capabilities as well but then YPAO did not really take off big time even though it has some potential.

Apart from the re-mapping, and correct me if I am wrong, Sony offers little in terms of adjustments to user preferences. They probably hit the "likeable" sound right off the bat and a number of people love it and don't feel compelled to go further. Even if you REW Sony setup, there would be little you could do to adjust it based on the REW measurements. Sony just has its own approach.

There is a very long standing and essential disagreement with respect to what is the best room EQ system and even more so how to apply it, and that is not to be resolved anytime soon. Going into those is probably not the best choice if you are happy with what you have. It has the potential to make one unhappy and unsure of the choices made. There is phase correction, amplitude correction, sub integration, and then bass management for the ones that opted to choose more powerful speakers than small bookshelves for the bed channels. And unfortunately very little objective data that would help you deal with all of the above.

And then there are active speaker designs, and some of them are fundamentally different than passive, and are a different breed when it comes to room EQ.

Good luck with your journey and hope you don't feel compelled to jump into the various rabbit wholes that are wide open all around you.

 

[Crook]

I have Corgis

View attachment 438716

Beautiful

 

[masterhw]

On a non-gear front, one of the cheapest and easiest upgrades available to you is moving from Spotify to Tidal or Apple Music. I don't mean to start the bitrate/codec argument thats already been hashed out a thousand times, but the facts are 1) that it should be straightforward for you to try out lossless audio and see if it makes a difference to you, and 2) the Atmos mixes available on these platforms are also sometimes worthwhile. Some of the best I've ever heard music has been on these versions. I made the switch last year and use Spotify less and less. I can't always hear the difference, but when I can I'm 100% certain.

 

[Astoneroad]

I'm not Bezo's rich or even close, but I can drop another $6k without too much concern . . . so . . .
What speakers would folks recommend I try next in the $4k to $6k per pair range that they believe would provide enough difference that I will notice.

As we all know... life is short. For $8k you jump to the top o' the heap and forget wasting precious time contemplating future upgrades and just enjoy the music. You can have any pair below in your room within a week... two days if you buy new from Crutchfield... I'm just sayin'... Seize the Day.