Midrange dome drivers banned ?

[Wolf]

I used the Usher 9845 down to 850Hz in my 3-ways, and they are a spectacular reference.

 

[dfuller]

So I did some research and the only 3" dome I could find that is underhung is the ATC SM75-150, and guess what? Not only is it pretty high sensitivity, it's also the only one that can acceptably be crossed below about 500hz (ATC crosses them at 380hz). It's also completely unavailable outside of their speakers. K&H did use it on the O500, but that is long since discontinued - though I hear it's an absolutely badass speaker.

 

[Frank Dernie]

So I did some research and the only 3" dome I could find that is underhung is the ATC SM75-150, and guess what? Not only is it pretty high sensitivity, it's also the only one that can acceptably be crossed below about 500hz (ATC crosses them at 380hz). It's also completely unavailable outside of their speakers. K&H did use it on the O500, but that is long since discontinued - though I hear it's an absolutely badass speaker.

You used to be able to buy it separately for years then they brought out a higher sensitivity version which wasn't available separately then they stopped selling the original separately.
Volt make their own version which looks very similar indeed.
Wilmslow used to make kit versions of all the ATC models but can't any more.
The nearest is this one.
I have always fancied making this one, but when I was younger I didn't have any spare time and now I can't be bothered!

 

[dfuller]

Volt make their own version which looks very similar indeed.

Ah, but it's not - it's overhung! Plus, its Fs is much higher. Does still have a nice double suspension though which improves linearity.

You used to be able to buy it separately for years then they brought out a higher sensitivity version which wasn't available separately then they stopped selling the original separately.

I think they just didn't want to be selling to their competitors, which I totally get.

 

[Chromatischism]

So I did some research and the only 3" dome I could find that is underhung is the ATC SM75-150, and guess what? Not only is it pretty high sensitivity, it's also the only one that can acceptably be crossed below about 500hz (ATC crosses them at 380hz). It's also completely unavailable outside of their speakers. K&H did use it on the O500, but that is long since discontinued - though I hear it's an absolutely badass speaker.

What are the downsides of having a crossover in the middle of such a critical band? What comes to mind is voices will come from two drive units.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Ah, but it's not - it's overhung! Plus, its Fs is much higher. Does still have a nice double suspension though which improves linearity.

I think they just didn't want to be selling to their competitors, which I totally get.

They've been around a long time too, I have a pair of these ProAc EBS in my study which use ATC mid and 9" bass drivers and are over 30 years old.
ProAc used ATC drivers in several models over the years. I liked these too.

 

[dfuller]

What are the downsides of having a crossover in the middle of such a critical band? What comes to mind is voices will come from two drive units.

That's about all that comes to mind for me. The upsides of course are it's better to have that crossover there rather than where our ears are more sensitive in the upper midrange (700hz ballpark) and that also reduces IMD in the bass driver.

 

[dualazmak]

There's really only one truly great dome midrange.
The Yamaha NS-1000M Beryllium, JA051300.

The Yamaha midrange in the NS-1000 is nothing like any midrange I have ever heard. Quite simply, there's nothing to touch it. Whenever I forget what real midrange performance is about, I go down to my Dad's place and fire up his Anniversary NS-1000M Japanese home market pair and just revel in the glorious presentation.
The NS-1000X midranges were even better, as was the overall speaker, but they are as rare as rocking-horse chit now.

I fully agree with you...

I still fully enjoy wonderful NS-1000 (not NS-1000M, but the Be-midrange dome is common for both) in my multichannel multi-driver (multi-way) multi-amplifier system. I believe the Yamaha Be-midrange dome sounds even much better when directly driven by dedicated amplifier eliminating the LC network.

You may find here the latest frequency response measured at listening position (ca. 3.65 m from the surface of SPs) in actual living room environment (please see the photo of the room in my post here).

 

[jtgofish]

I much prefer the Yamaha NS75T to the NS1000/100M.It uses a titanium dome midrange and tweeter.It has a lot better imaging and bass than the NS1000 and like the NS1000 is very high resolution.

 

[jtgofish]

I owned Sonique Encore SE speakers.Really excellent Australian made speakers which used two Dynaudio D52 dome midranges, a Dynaudio Esotec tweeter and two Vifa 7 inch woofers .Later models used Morel dome mids.Very much in the Duntech style.The founders of Sonique used to work for Duntech.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I much prefer the Yamaha NS75T to the NS1000/100M.It uses a titanium dome midrange and tweeter.It has a lot better imaging and bass than the NS1000 and like the NS1000 is very high resolution.

Strange. Titanium doesn't have any particularly favourable mechanical properties over other metals commonly used for driver diaphragms. Only Berillium and Boron have sufficiently higher specific stiffness than mag/ally/steel/titanium to raise driver breakup frequency appreciably and whilst Berillium is difficult and expensive to make a dome from nobody has come up with a practical way of making a boron dome yet so at the moment Berillium is in a field of one as far as superiority is concerned.
Titanium won't be quite as high for breakup as the anodised aluminium which is frequently used and is probably the cost/performance hot spot I would expect.

 

[thewas]

I would also doubt that the tweeter material would be the reason of his preference but rather different frequency response and directivity due to the different drivers, crossover and baffle.

 

[jtgofish]

Strange. Titanium doesn't have any particularly favourable mechanical properties over other metals commonly used for driver diaphragms. Only Berillium and Boron have sufficiently higher specific stiffness than mag/ally/steel/titanium to raise driver breakup frequency appreciably and whilst Berillium is difficult and expensive to make a dome from nobody has come up with a practical way of making a boron dome yet so at the moment Berillium is in a field of one as far as superiority is concerned.
Titanium won't be quite as high for breakup as the anodised aluminium which is frequently used and is probably the cost/performance hot spot I would expect.

The NS75Ts are exactly the same dimensions as the NS1000.I always blamed the wide baffle for lack of centre fill imaging on the NS1000s and NS1200s so when I heard how good the imaging was with the NS75T I was really surprised.So perhaps it just comes down to different dome mids or crossovers or a combination of both.The NS75Ts are about a decade later than the NS1000s.Perhaps Yamaha had improved their crossover designs by then.
Troels Gravesen sells an upgraded crossover for the NS1000 which is supposed to improve the imaging.
They combine really well with my Bakoon Satri Amp 5521 amplifier .Easier to drive than the NS1000 too.

 

[richard12511]

Strange. Titanium doesn't have any particularly favourable mechanical properties over other metals commonly used for driver diaphragms. Only Berillium and Boron have sufficiently higher specific stiffness than mag/ally/steel/titanium to raise driver breakup frequency appreciably and whilst Berillium is difficult and expensive to make a dome from nobody has come up with a practical way of making a boron dome yet so at the moment Berillium is in a field of one as far as superiority is concerned.
Titanium won't be quite as high for breakup as the anodised aluminium which is frequently used and is probably the cost/performance hot spot I would expect.

What about diamond?

 

[jtgofish]

What about diamond?

Zylon as used in the Yamaha NS5000s is technically the best.Which is why Yamaha has used it.Wonderful natural sounding speakers.

 

[Frank Dernie]

What about diamond?

I don't think of it as a metal.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Zylon is a synthetic polymer fiber. Claiming it's "technically the best" speaker material is nothing but marketing speak in the absence of scientific proof within the audio community.

 

[dualazmak]

Another reason for Yamaha's selection of Zylon is that Beryllium metal is possibly toxic, or would pollute environment, when it would be broken into powders... Yamaha is such a big company and they should be careful enough about possible social responsibility for any kind of even rare cases of damages to people, consumers and environment, I believe. They need to show such a preventive attitude to the society.

TAD is still using vacuum vapor deposition Beryllium metal in their drivers, though...

 

[jtgofish]

[UOTE="More Dynamics Please, post: 865785, member: 22293"]Zylon is a synthetic polymer fiber. Claiming it's "technically the best" speaker material is nothing but marketing speak in the absence of scientific proof within the audio community.[/QUOTE]

No.There are very good technical reasons why Zylon is a superior material.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

[UOTE="More Dynamics Please, post: 865785, member: 22293"]Zylon is a synthetic polymer fiber. Claiming it's "technically the best" speaker material is nothing but marketing speak in the absence of scientific proof within the audio community.

No.There are very good technical reasons why Zylon is a superior material.[/QUOTE]
but when you write those claim you need to explain why and then show the proofs..