Midrange dome drivers banned ?

[dfuller]

And dome mids are not the magical solution to everything, they have their advantages, but also big disadvantages (limited bandwith, low sensivity, very fragile) compared to cone and compression drivers.

FWIW, most dome mids have considerably higher sensitivity than cones.

The Bliesma 3" domes are all 95dB/2.83V or higher, the Volt VM752 is 94dB/2.83V, and the ATC is around 94dB/2.83V as well (the "non-super" is about 91dB).

I can't think of any cone midranges above about 90dB/2.83V. The tradeoff of course is that they have much lower available crossover points.

Compression drivers almost don't count because of the sheer size of horn you need at the lower Fc, but they do have much higher sensitivity.

with midrange domes, it's hard to get the directivity right and smooth

Also this is not necessarily the case, dome mids generally radiate widely enough that you can easily cross a tweeter to them without too much worry about directivity matching (well, if your Fc isn't up near 4k anyway). At the low end the directivity behavior is dictated by baffle width, generally a 3" dome mid with typical "ATC style" waveguide loading is enough for it to behave okay down to whatever crossover point is in use.

 

[Audionaut]

I can't think of any cone midranges above about 90dB/2.83V. The tradeoff of course is that they have much lower available crossover points.

AUDAX HM210Z10 for example, but there are many others

Nominal impedance: 8 ohms
Recommended frequency range: 250–3,000 Hz
Recommended enclosure type: Closed 8–15 l
SPL 2.83 V/1 m: 98.4 dB
Fs: 188 Hz
Qts: 0.70
Qes: 0.79
Qms: 6.3
Vas: 5.0 liters
Xmax: 1.5 +- mm
Rdc: 5.7 ohms
Mms: 12 g
Sd: 243 cm²
Rms: 2.2 Ns/m
Weight: 2.8 kg

 

[Flaesh]

I don't think there was any mention of JBL PL in this thread, was there? The 90 model was measured by Amir, but it's a small two-way speaker. Normal XPLs have funny dome midrange.

 

[dfuller]

View attachment 506651

AUDAX HM210Z10 for example, but there are many others

Nominal impedance: 8 ohms
Recommended frequency range: 250–3,000 Hz
Recommended enclosure type: Closed 8–15 l
SPL 2.83 V/1 m: 98.4 dB
Fs: 188 Hz
Qts: 0.70
Qes: 0.79
Qms: 6.3
Vas: 5.0 liters
Xmax: 1.5 +- mm
Rdc: 5.7 ohms
Mms: 12 g
Sd: 243 cm²
Rms: 2.2 Ns/m
Weight: 2.8 kg

Yeah, it's also an 8 inch driver with about twice the radiating area. Harder to blend with a tweeter.

 

[Audionaut]

Yeah, it's also an 8 inch driver with about twice the radiating area. Harder to blend with a tweeter.

The one has nothing to do with the other. You wrote that there are no cone midrange speakers that exceed 90 dB/2.83 V.
However, I am hardly aware of any PA midrange speakers that fall below this value, regardless of whether they are smaller or larger.
Of course, an 8-inch speaker can also be easily combined with a suitable tweeter. You have to pay attention to the correct crossover frequency and the appropriate dispersion characteristics—as with all designs.

I find it more difficult to integrate large domes cleanly.

 

[Ktacos]

with midrange domes, it's hard to get the directivity right and smooth. Hard, not impossible (see Neumann).

This is a major reason I passed on them in a recent build. It become quite evident that how neumann is using them in the kh310 is just about the only way to use them in a 3 way of that size, covering an extremely small bandwidth just to fill in the DI mismatch from the woofer to tweeter. Want to use them in bigger boxes, going to have to waveguide them. They are just so dang wide that I found them to be difficult to work with. I was hoping they'd be some holy grail in mid range reproduction but I didn't care for their limitations that I ran into.

 

[Audionaut]

The Dynaudio Consequence had quite a few domes, including a large one for the upper midrange.

 

[Waxx]

This is a major reason I passed on them in a recent build. It become quite evident that how neumann is using them in the kh310 is just about the only way to use them in a 3 way of that size, covering an extremely small bandwidth just to fill in the DI mismatch from the woofer to tweeter. Want to use them in bigger boxes, going to have to waveguide them. They are just so dang wide that I found them to be difficult to work with. I was hoping they'd be some holy grail in mid range reproduction but I didn't care for their limitations that I ran into.

That was also my findings when playing with a ATC middome, rescued from a trashed ATC speaker (tweeter and woofer were shot). I did sell it at the end as i could not make it work right. It was easier to go with a 2 way, so that is what it became. The speaker was not for me, and the owner agreed when he saw my measurements (then still very primitive, it was in 2010). I don't have that data anymore as it was not my project.

But i do get why there are many who want it, it has a smaller sd, so easier to get it close to the tweeter and so have them aligned. But dispertion is a problem with those. It could maybe work with a coax dome tweeter covering the treble and mid, but i don't now anybody who tried to make that, i don't know if it's even possible with domes like with a compression driver. But if someone could do that, you could put it in one waveguide which would make the controlled dispertion a lot easier.

 

[Flaesh]

Some DIYers used ordinary compression drivers with the covers [and phase plug] removed as 4" dome drivers. Similar to 3" JBL XPL)))

 

[Arindal]

it's also an 8 inch driver with about twice the radiating area. Harder to blend with a tweeter.

Check the 5" and 6.5" units by FaitalPro, B&C, or some other brands specializing in compact sound reinforcement drivers, like for line arrays or stage monitoring.

It become quite evident that how neumann is using them in the kh310 is just about the only way to use them in a 3 way of that size, covering an extremely small bandwidth just to fill in the DI mismatch from the woofer to tweeter.

Certainly true, with a 3" midrange dome, you are very restricted in terms of crossover frequencies, geometry and potential woofer/tweeter partners. I personally would find a 3.5 way concept with two compact woofers even more elegant than the K+H solution. PMC is doing something like this, but I think these are all towers.

 

[El_Duderino]

These are new:

Emotiva Model	Nostala LB12
Product Type	Floorstanding Speaker
Price	$2,999/pair
Speaker Configuration	3-Way
Cabinet Tuning	Dual front ports
High-frequency driver	28 mm (one inch) silk dome tweeter, neodymium magnet assembly, machined aluminum face plate, aluminum wire voice coil, copper shorting ring.
Midrange driver	5-1/4” HyperDome soft fabric midrange transducer, rubber surround, neodymium magnet structure, 75 mm aluminum voice coil with copper shorting ring.
Low-frequency driver	12” paper cone woofer, die-cast frame, dual 140 mm magnets, NBR surround, 4-layer 50 mm voice coil, aluminum shorting ring.
Efficiency	91 dB (2.83V/1m)
Power Handling	150W continuous/350W peak

 

[Doenerkunde]

Seas of Norway just released a new 2.5 Inch 300$/pc midrange soft dome:

https://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=656:e0103-06_m64f001&catid=109:excel-midranges&Itemid=644

 

[Arindal]

Seas of Norway just released a new 2.5 Inch 300$/pc midrange soft dome:

Pretty interesting one, shifting the usual directivity issues on the higher end of its range well above 3K. Question is, how low this one could be crossed over without major issues. 2nd order @500Hz looks optimistic to me. Other question is, if this is compatible with anything like a waveguide, the mounting plate looks slightly convex. Both questions might be answered by some real-world applications of this one.

 

[Doenerkunde]

Other question is, if this is compatible with anything like a waveguide, the mounting plate looks slightly convex.

Backside looks promising regarding easy custom waveguide integration:

 

[Arindal]

Backside looks promising regarding easy custom waveguide integration:

Not sure how the pins and wires are integrated. In the description the aluminium plate is mentioned forming some kind of a load-bearing structure for the driver itself. Maybe it can be replaced.

Question remains, to which degree the convex plate is contributing to even directivity, particularly broad dispersion around 3K. Putting a driver that effectively becomes some sort of ring radiator, into a large waveguide, is really something that has to be tested.