Michi Prestige Q430 CD Player, and its $4,400 Fatal Flaw & Rotel's Bizarre Support

[pablolie]

I used to own CD players costing in the high four-figure range and amplifiers reaching into the mid-five-figure range—not to mention DACs.
Then, in 1994, I bought the newly released Cambridge Audio DACMagic 1 (designed by John Westlake) directly from England for £150, and it was a real wake-up call.

For 26 years, I have been running a project with several friends—audio enthusiasts who are measurement technicians, engineers, and sound engineers—in which we conduct blind comparisons of equipment across all price ranges to identify differences and document them through measurements.

My current CD players are the Tascam CD-200 and the Cambridge Audio CXC; as for DACs, I still use the 1994 DACMagic 1 alongside various DACs priced between €75 and €600 that have tested well on ASR.
My amplifiers include the 3E Audio A5, the Sabaj A30a, and a NAD 2200 power amplifier.
I would have no problem buying equipment in the four- or five-figure range again if there were a sonic advantage, but I would be reluctant to accept a downgrade in terms of sound quality, technical performance, or measurement results.

Clearly not the place for a CD player history thing. But my last 2 CD players were the Denon DCD-1290 and then an Accuphase D65v. Never heard a difference between the two, but the latter was (a) prettier and (b) functioned as a very capable DAC from 2005 to 2014 in my previous setup in a large room.

 

[mhardy6647]

Any half decent CD player from the 80s and 90s had those,

... and it could be set up to sync with a cassette tape deck, so that one could make copies that fit on the tape with minimal effort.

Their official solution for a €4,000 flagship device? They suggested I purchase a different Rotel remote (the RR-D99) out of my own pocket. Surreal Customer SupportResponse, in my opinion.

In terms of the titular michi, I guess my gut feeling* would be that, given the initial cost, the incremental cost of another remote adding the desired incremental functionality is, as we used to say in the for-profit world, budget dust. Compare, e.g., the cost of purchasing a BMW and the incremental cost of having it serviced or repaired post-warranty period.

EDIT: PS A ten-dollar aftermarket/massmarket remote might be all that would be needed to add the missing functionality.

____________
* FWIW, since the matter's already done & dusted.

 

[JeffS7444]

Could you tell me which player you experienced this with? Thanks.

It's a very fancy clock-radio of sorts: Cambridge Soundworks CD740. It's possible that the remote has the functionality, but I don't have it.

Now that I think about it, many years ago when CD players became relatively affordable, it was typical for them to also have programmability, so that you could play tracks in a certain order, or omit them.

 

[pablolie]

EDIT: PS A ten-dollar aftermarket/massmarket remote might be all that would be needed to add the missing functionality

Unless any of us has the device in front of us, we're speculating.

 

[mhardy6647]

Unless any of us has the device in front of us, we're speculating.

Absolutely true.
Rotel, however, apparently offered a workaround from their own stable of remotes. I am sure their solution is not inexpensive, but the incremental cost is likely not outrageous when judged against the cost of the CDP itself.

EDIT: a used RR-D99 is currently listed on (US) eBAY for $120. Aftermarket, deeply and profoundly generic replacement remotes are $20 to 30.

 

[shuppatsu]

Do yourself a favor to completely read the manual before buying yet another device on just expectations!

I’d venture that fewer than 1% of the population does this sort of thing. Do you read the driver’s manual front to back before buying a car?

I’d only do such a thing for like maybe a router or other equipment where I wanted to make sure that certain esoteric functionality existed. Even if I were to hypothetically peruse a manual before buying, I wouldn’t be doing so with a checklist in hand making sure that basic functionality was covered.

Let’s see here, does it have a play button? It does! Ok, how about eject?

 

[Joe Smith]

Kind of silly to bounce a unit that expensive if a $30 aftermarket remote actually would solve the issue…

 

[marin.weigel]

My experience in professional conduct is, that it's always deemed mandatory to verify specs against available documentation before spending on new equipment - for me, it just became second nature for private acquisitions, and I'm definitively not showing signs of OCD in doing it.

YMMV, but then don't come whining in fora as if you dropped your ice cream to the floor.
I see all too many people around me ordering and returning stuff on a whim due to TLDR syndrome - it's epidemic ...

 

[mhardy6647]

I’d venture that fewer than 1% of the population does this sort of thing. Do you read the driver’s manual front to back before buying a car?

I’d only do such a thing for like maybe a router or other equipment where I wanted to make sure that certain esoteric [edit]functionality existed. Even if I were to hypothetically peruse a manual before buying, I wouldn’t be doing so with a checklist in hand making sure that basic functionality was covered.

Let’s see here, does it have a play button? It does! Ok, how about eject?

No doubt that we've all done this sort of thing.

 

[pinger]

Hi everyone,

Newbie here on ASR, writting and greeting you from Spain. I made my "formal" presentation here yesterday. Following up on my introduction, I wanted to share a highly frustrating experience I’ve just had with my brand new CD player (I bought it barelly 3 weeks ago): the flagship Rotel / Michi Prestige Q430 (retail price: €3,990 / ~$4,400). I am posting this as a warning to anyone considering this unit for their system.

First of all, a few pictures of my setup:

View attachment 554548

View attachment 554549

View attachment 554550

Let me start by saying that, sonically, the Q430 is a spectacular machine. It has a dead-silent background, incredible channel separation, and massive dynamics. It combines sturdy construction and beautiful aesthetics (really nice good-looking aspect. I swear I love it). However, all that brilliant engineering is ruined by a completely incomprehensible design omission, and an equally disappointing customer service response.

A few days after setting it up, I was listening to a 20-minute Mahler symphony movement. I got interrupted and needed to rewind a few minutes within the track. I pressed and held the "previous track" button on the remote... and it just skipped to the beginning of the song. I tried doing it from the front panel buttons. Same result. I tried it on several tracks from other CDs, but eventually, I realized the unthinkable: the Michi Q430 does not have a fast-forward or rewind (scan/seek) function within a track. You also can't mark a specific point inside a track in any way.

If you are listening to a long classical piece, an extended jazz improvisation, or Mike Oldfield's Ommadawn Parts I & II (just to name a few examples), and you want to find or re-listen to a specific passage, you can't. If you get interrupted halfway through a 30-minute track, you are forced to restart from zero because the system turns off after a couple of minutes. (I can understand this auto-standby as a security asset for the laser reader, but I insist, the Michi forces you to restart the track entirely after that pause).

I contacted Rotel/Michi global support, assuming this had to be a software bug that could be fixed via firmware, but their initial response was astounding: They claimed the lack of a scan/seek function was not a bug, but a conscious "design choice" due to the "minimalist philosophy" of the Q430's remote control. Their official solution for a €4,000 flagship device? They suggested I purchase a different Rotel remote (the RR-D99) out of my own pocket. Surreal Customer SupportResponse, in my opinion.

I replied with a new email explaining that true minimalism doesn't require extra buttons; it requires assigning dual functions to existing buttons (short press to skip, long press to scan), which has been the industry standard for decades. Furthermore, a minimalist remote doesn't explain why the front panel buttons lack this basic function as well.
I further told them that omitting the fast-seek functionality on a premium CD player is as absurd as forgetting to implement the "Play" or "Pause" buttons. It is a fundamental requirement of the CD format, not an optional luxury. Even a cheap $100 CD player allows you to fast-forward or rewind inside a track. I also pointed out that hiding this severe limitation from their marketing specs borders on misleading advertising. The Michi manual doesn't mention anything about this issue either.

The Final Verdict from Rotel? Following my firm complaint, their internal teams (maybe the Engineering Department) reviewed the case. Their final email was polite but unapologetic. They confirmed that the unit is operating "as currently designed." They stated they have passed my feedback to engineering but explicitly confirmed that, despite acknowledging the importance of this functionality, they have no plans for any firmware update, change, or modification to fix this issue.

Finally, they gave me the ultimate "take it or leave it" corporate response: they told me that if this operation is essential to my listening requirements, I should just pack it up and return it to my dealer.

So, that is exactly what I am going to do as soon as the holiday break ends on September 1st. The unit is boxed up and going back. It is a real shame because the Q430 sounds beautiful in my Technics / Sonus Faber setup. I really loved this CD player from the very moment I started to seek information about it (I never could have imagined that I was going to find this kind of problem with an expensive—and top brand—Japanese device). But as a matter of principle, I refuse to reward a company that releases a crippled flagship product, blames it on "minimalist design," and expects the user to just accept it. Rotel has permanently lost a customer.

I'll be taking my money to brands that still respect basic functionality and their customers. (I'm currently researching the Accuphase DP-450 and the new Luxman D-03R, but, truth be told, I'm still processing all this nonsense).

In short: if you are considering this Q430, know that it is a true marvel in every way... right up until you need to fast-forward a bit within a track, or re-listen to those five seconds you love so much. At that moment, you'll realize you own the equivalent of an ultra-high-end luxury car, but one where the engineers decided to remove the reverse gear—and didn't let you find out until you had already paid for it and parked it in your own garage.

Apologizing for the length of the text, I'd love to hear your thoughts about this issue.

Cheers!

When you buy your next player you need to understand CD players dont have sonic differences.

 

[pinger]

Good grief why would anyone buy a $4000 cd player to begin with? Returning it sounds like a good step, tho.

Well that sucks, but they weren't lying to you when they said it was the result of a conscious design decision. I don't know that they could have fixed it via a firmware update, but maybe they could have sent you a replacement remote controller as a courtesy. I encountered a similar problem when playing Big Empty Country by Brian Eno and Beatie Wolfe: 1 track, 64:01 long!

What good would getting a replacement remote do? Did i miss something? Wouldnt the new remote also not have the functionality he wants?

 

[Kevin1956]

Welcome to ASR, where many are willing to help you spend your money, better than you ever could. I can only imagine how some of those folks would react if they had any of their expenditures on lifestyle choices questioned or mocked.

If I was as disappointed as you with my purchase, I would return it as well. Good luck with your search of a replacement.

 

[pinger]

I’d venture that fewer than 1% of the population does this sort of thing. Do you read the driver’s manual front to back before buying a car?

I’d only do such a thing for like maybe a router or other equipment where I wanted to make sure that certain esoteric finctionality existed. Even if I were to hypothetically peruse a manual before buying, I wouldn’t be doing so with a checklist in hand making sure that basic functionality was covered.

Let’s see here, does it have a play button? It does! Ok, how about eject?

I think a cars owners manual is a little bit longer than a cd player manual LOL. Not a good analogy

 

[mhardy6647]

What good would getting a replacement remote do? Did i miss something? Wouldnt the new remote also not have the functionality he wants?

The Ur-post to this thread (EDIT: see below) states that Rotel recommended an alternate (Rotel) remote to add the desired functionality. As the thread's meandered along, it's less and less clear that the originally-proposed (by Rotel) solution is viable. That said, I know that I would've tried every Rotel code on every universal remote that I had handy (and within reason) to see if I could game the system.

Other folks just want turnkey, and one cannot fault them for that.

I contacted Rotel/Michi global support, assuming this had to be a software bug that could be fixed via firmware, but their initial response was astounding: They claimed the lack of a scan/seek function was not a bug, but a conscious "design choice" due to the "minimalist philosophy" of the Q430's remote control. Their official solution for a €4,000 flagship device? They suggested I purchase a different Rotel remote (the RR-D99) out of my own pocket. Surreal Customer SupportResponse, in my opinion.

 

[pinger]

Welcome to ASR, where many are willing to help you spend your money, better than you ever could. I can only imagine how some of those folks would react if they had any of their expenditures on lifestyle choices questioned or mocked.

If I was as disappointed as you with my purchase, I would return it as well. Good luck with your search of a replacement.

I dont really see mocking here. The poster is new and as such may not understand that CD players dont have sonic differnces so he can factor that into his next purchase. Thats all

 

[pinger]

The Ur-post to this thread (EDIT: see below) states that Rotel recommended an alternate (Rotel) remote to add the desired functionality. As the thread's meandered along, it's less and less clear that the originally-proposed (by Rotel) solution is viable. That said, I know that I would've tried every Rotel code on every universal remote that I had handy (and within reason) to see if I could game the system.

Other folks just want turnkey, and one cannot fault them for that.

Thanks Hardy. I didnt notice that when I read thru the original post. If a simple remote change would get him the functionality he needs seems like a no brainer to me even at his additional cost assuming its not a crazy price

 

[Mnyb]

I migth be so that drives aviable for CD players today also miss some basic functionality ? Who knows where they sourced the drive .

Manual? Ok for my car i would not check if the blinkers works for both ledt and rigth turns it sort of expected same as ffwd and rrwd

 

[muslhead]

I migth be so that drives aviable for CD players today also miss some basic functionality ? Who knows where they sourced the drive .

Manual? Ok for my car i would not check if the blinkers works for both ledt and rigth turns it sort of expected same as ffwd and rrwd

I agree.
But, when that happens, put your big boy pants on, stfu, quit whining and send the unit back. go buy another. Geez. Enough with the drama. What's it gonna be like when a real problem (say he finds he has cancer) arises? This is seriously a first world problem

 

[Marc v E]

Hi everyone,

Newbie here on ASR, writting and greeting you from Spain. I made my "formal" presentation here yesterday. Following up on my introduction, I wanted to share a highly frustrating experience I’ve just had with my brand new CD player (I bought it barelly 3 weeks ago): the flagship Rotel / Michi Prestige Q430 (retail price: €3,990 / ~$4,400). I am posting this as a warning to anyone considering this unit for their system.

First of all, a few pictures of my setup:

View attachment 554548

View attachment 554549

View attachment 554550

Let me start by saying that, sonically, the Q430 is a spectacular machine. It has a dead-silent background, incredible channel separation, and massive dynamics. It combines sturdy construction and beautiful aesthetics (really nice good-looking aspect. I swear I love it). However, all that brilliant engineering is ruined by a completely incomprehensible design omission, and an equally disappointing customer service response.

A few days after setting it up, I was listening to a 20-minute Mahler symphony movement. I got interrupted and needed to rewind a few minutes within the track. I pressed and held the "previous track" button on the remote... and it just skipped to the beginning of the song. I tried doing it from the front panel buttons. Same result. I tried it on several tracks from other CDs, but eventually, I realized the unthinkable: the Michi Q430 does not have a fast-forward or rewind (scan/seek) function within a track. You also can't mark a specific point inside a track in any way.

If you are listening to a long classical piece, an extended jazz improvisation, or Mike Oldfield's Ommadawn Parts I & II (just to name a few examples), and you want to find or re-listen to a specific passage, you can't. If you get interrupted halfway through a 30-minute track, you are forced to restart from zero because the system turns off after a couple of minutes. (I can understand this auto-standby as a security asset for the laser reader, but I insist, the Michi forces you to restart the track entirely after that pause).

I contacted Rotel/Michi global support, assuming this had to be a software bug that could be fixed via firmware, but their initial response was astounding: They claimed the lack of a scan/seek function was not a bug, but a conscious "design choice" due to the "minimalist philosophy" of the Q430's remote control. Their official solution for a €4,000 flagship device? They suggested I purchase a different Rotel remote (the RR-D99) out of my own pocket. Surreal Customer SupportResponse, in my opinion.

I replied with a new email explaining that true minimalism doesn't require extra buttons; it requires assigning dual functions to existing buttons (short press to skip, long press to scan), which has been the industry standard for decades. Furthermore, a minimalist remote doesn't explain why the front panel buttons lack this basic function as well.
I further told them that omitting the fast-seek functionality on a premium CD player is as absurd as forgetting to implement the "Play" or "Pause" buttons. It is a fundamental requirement of the CD format, not an optional luxury. Even a cheap $100 CD player allows you to fast-forward or rewind inside a track. I also pointed out that hiding this severe limitation from their marketing specs borders on misleading advertising. The Michi manual doesn't mention anything about this issue either.

The Final Verdict from Rotel? Following my firm complaint, their internal teams (maybe the Engineering Department) reviewed the case. Their final email was polite but unapologetic. They confirmed that the unit is operating "as currently designed." They stated they have passed my feedback to engineering but explicitly confirmed that, despite acknowledging the importance of this functionality, they have no plans for any firmware update, change, or modification to fix this issue.

Finally, they gave me the ultimate "take it or leave it" corporate response: they told me that if this operation is essential to my listening requirements, I should just pack it up and return it to my dealer.

So, that is exactly what I am going to do as soon as the holiday break ends on September 1st. The unit is boxed up and going back. It is a real shame because the Q430 sounds beautiful in my Technics / Sonus Faber setup. I really loved this CD player from the very moment I started to seek information about it (I never could have imagined that I was going to find this kind of problem with an expensive—and top brand—Japanese device). But as a matter of principle, I refuse to reward a company that releases a crippled flagship product, blames it on "minimalist design," and expects the user to just accept it. Rotel has permanently lost a customer.

I'll be taking my money to brands that still respect basic functionality and their customers. (I'm currently researching the Accuphase DP-450 and the new Luxman D-03R, but, truth be told, I'm still processing all this nonsense).

In short: if you are considering this Q430, know that it is a true marvel in every way... right up until you need to fast-forward a bit within a track, or re-listen to those five seconds you love so much. At that moment, you'll realize you own the equivalent of an ultra-high-end luxury car, but one where the engineers decided to remove the reverse gear—and didn't let you find out until you had already paid for it and parked it in your own garage.

Apologizing for the length of the text, I'd love to hear your thoughts about this issue.

Cheers!

Sounds like a lot of headaches for high-end stuff.

It it were me, I would just choose a Denon 900ne which is technically just as good, and probably better.

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Or if you want the absolute best measuring and something different in looks:

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[JeffS7444]

What good would getting a replacement remote do? Did i miss something? Wouldnt the new remote also not have the functionality he wants?

Not the same remote, a more fully-featured one recommended to the OP by Rotel technical support. My Samsung TV has a similar issue: The standard remote is sleek and minimalist, but it lacks a numeric keypad, so if I wanted to access the set's service menu, I'd need to get a different remote.