Michael Børresen explains himself?

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

X3 - $16kca per pair. Terrible speaker for 600 per pair! "Meet the Genius"

With Erin's video go straight to the measurements

 

[Arindal]

the "Estimated In Room Response"s of "ruler flat" Klippel freq. often look similar to the real in room measurements - with "dip" around 2,5kHz - and other tendencies in freq. response.

As the in-room-response is calculated from on-axis, discrete reflection windows plus overall diffuse soundfield (depending on directivity and other factors), this is to be expected. Lobing between midrange and tweeter or increasing directivity index in the aforementioned band result in dips or attenuation in the in-room graph.

I don´t agree with MB at all, that there was a sense in that particular narrow dip he seemingly prefers, when the goal is to reproduce well-balanced tonality or resemble the sound in the studio control room.

On the other hand, I don't see the difference between a deliberate narrow 2.5k dip, compared to a broad-band attenuation above 4k which a lot of waveguide/horn/coaxial-loaded speakers produce in rooms, if the only justification is that people subjectively prefer it in listening tests. We have to accept these variants as equally legitimate in terms of subjective preference, but still deviating from any theoretical ideal of balanced tonality.

 

[singular]

I need to say I am not fan.
But it needs to be measured from about 3m minimum - bass.
In well treated room or hall - subbas.
In proper height - mids/highs.
Proper angle - modelation of response.

I doubt it could be clearly visible in Klippel, or in hurry by Clio.
Anyway if I meet those I will let it go into digital domain for sure.

 

[Tito]

i am not experienced in these things.. can someone explain the "thunder and twigs" part he talked about, if i understood it correctly?


we can localize thunder and twigs better because of transients and overtones,
if the bass in speakers is lacking that is good it seems ( or some other frequencies too), because bloaty overtones of bass will cause reduced localization and that is why most speakers fail, and thus.. these things are more important than flatness and accuracy of speakers.. but that is important too, yet less so.

and in a way if there is a "big dip", that is a good thing too, because that dip makes more "room" for these overtones to fit in, and it can make speakers sound more "realistic" perhaps.

 

[singular]

To thunders and twigs:

We can hear phase distortion equal to 10us as color of bass (suma) or fading the bass information on highs.

That is from my DSP experience.
If I am right it is resolution of 100kHz.
But I would rather say 200kHz is optimal and treshold.
In time domain.

The same surprise for me was a nuancy in level of matching drive units, where 0,1dB is just at the limit, optimal would be 0,05dB.
Talking about stereo and channel matching of bass, mids or highs.

Then the whole spectrum sounds right, however it does not talk about overall quality of sound.
Without reference - inaudible.

 

[Juhazi]

Borresens measure terribly bad, with obvious signs of seriuous design flaws. No doubt about that. The most strange to me are nearfield measurements ot the seven (!) ports...

Some more

Børresen X6 Loudspeaker

Børresen C1 standmount loudspeaker Lab Report

Clearly, a flat or uniform axial response is not always critical to the ‘subjective experience’ [see Graph 1]. At the standard 1m, the C1 reveals a mode right at the top of its bass/mid driver’s range [also visible on the CSD waterfall, Graph 2] prior to a full 9dB drop in output over the...

www.hifinews.com

BØRRESEN M1

Børresen to duńska marka należąca do Audio Group Denmark, firmy skupiającej kilka brandów wyspecjalizowanych w różnych dziedzinach audio. ...

audio.com.pl

 

[Mart68]

Port 3 in particular seems to be having a merry old time of it there in the upper mids.

 

[DanielT]

Borresens measure terribly bad, with obvious signs of seriuous design flaws. No doubt about that. The most strange to me are nearfield measurements ot the seven (!) ports...



View attachment 493975

Some more

Børresen X6 Loudspeaker

Børresen C1 standmount loudspeaker Lab Report

Clearly, a flat or uniform axial response is not always critical to the ‘subjective experience’ [see Graph 1]. At the standard 1m, the C1 reveals a mode right at the top of its bass/mid driver’s range [also visible on the CSD waterfall, Graph 2] prior to a full 9dB drop in output over the...

www.hifinews.com

BØRRESEN M1

Børresen to duńska marka należąca do Audio Group Denmark, firmy skupiającej kilka brandów wyspecjalizowanych w różnych dziedzinach audio. ...

audio.com.pl

Fascinating. For a tenth to even twentieth of what Børresen C1 costs, you can find many better two-way speakers.


Børresen M1 there we have definitely entered ludicrous speed..or price.

 

[voodooless]

We can hear phase distortion equal to 10us as color of bass (suma) or fading the bass information on highs.

That is from my DSP experience.
If I am right it is resolution of 100kHz.
But I would rather say 200kHz is optimal and treshold.
In time domain.

You don’t understand the sampling theorem. Sample rate != resolution. And the 10uS is about inter ear timing difference. Something totally different.

 

[bmc0]

Specifically it's an oblate spheroid. I consider that "spherical" by definition.

Approximately spherical .
To be clear, my post was intended as a jokey retort, not a real objection. A sphere is of course a useful, close-enough approximation in many cases. An ellipsoid (in particular, an oblate spheroid) is a closer approximation, but still not exactly correct. "All models are wrong, but some are useful" – G. E. P. Box.

 

[bmc0]

If I am right it is resolution of 100kHz.

Sample rate != resolution.

Yes, and it makes no sense to think of "time resolution" in Hz as it has little to do with sampling rate. The effective time resolution is (perhaps counterintuitively) determined by the signal bandwidth and the noise floor. Time being discretized doesn't matter—the effective time resolution of a continuous-time (analog) system depends on exactly the same parameters.

 

[MoreWatts]

Ansuz (accessories), Aviik (electronics) and Borreson (speakers) are owned by the The Audio Group Denmark. These guys set up $2million systems at audio shows, with more money in the accessories than in the really expensive electronics and shady speakers.

These guys promote and perpetuate snake oil on a level that makes Synergistic Research, Fraudioquest, and other oil vendors jealous. They are true connoisseurs of audiophile snake-oil.

 

[singular]

You don’t understand the sampling theorem. Sample rate != resolution. And the 10uS is about inter ear timing difference. Something totally different.

You put it right.
It was not about sampling resolution.
I was talking about music.
OT
Anyway once I was out when winter storm discharged to house 50m far from my spot.
( AI say positive charge is the strongest & longest to discharge )
Thunder flash about 1m in diameter and the sound of hiting the ground...was like one strong eartquake impuls.
I saw pressure wave and was luck enough to be still in the car, but my hearing was out for few minutes.
If I was in hurry I am just 5 meters from there at the time.
I still don´t get that it happened without any damage at all.
Localization?
Bass, or highs?
+/-0,5m - that is what I saw.
White column for about 1 second.
No sense to localize thunderstorm.
I was talking about music.

 

[111db]

Specifically it's an oblate spheroid. I consider that "spherical" by definition.

...to minimize Planetary Higher Order Modes, a la Dr. Geddes, lol?

 

[Ageve]

These guys promote and perpetuate snake oil on a level that makes Synergistic Research, Fraudioquest, and other oil vendors jealous. They are true connoisseurs of audiophile snake-oil.

 

[voodooless]

You put it right.
It was not about sampling resolution.
I was talking about music.

You’re just moving the goalpost around… Music doesn’t need 100 or 200 kHz either. You can only hear to about 20 kHz if you’re lucky. So 44.1 kHz is just fine.

 

[111db]

View attachment 494022

But isn't wire fraud illegal?

 

[kawauso]

 

[singular]

You’re just moving the goalpost around… Music doesn’t need 100 or 200 kHz either. You can only hear to about 20 kHz if you’re lucky. So 44.1 kHz is just fine.

I am not talking about sampling nor analog system.
I am talking about time and level sensitivity of human hearing.
Try to measure it and put the graphs here.
Let us have some fun

44,1kHz is fine enough.
I use oversampling and superslow filter.
OT still.

 

[voodooless]

I am talking about time and level sensitivity of human hearing.

Frankly I have no idea what you’re talking about? What does this have to do with 200 kHz?