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Meze Liric Review (Closed Back Headphone)

Rate this headphone:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 31 20.9%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 59 39.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 47 31.8%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 11 7.4%

  • Total voters
    148

Giangi71

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Neither of which apply to what he said in this review. I don't recall them being said anywhere else either. So your point is what?

He has been very clear in his stance that (the right) EQ can transform lots/most/all headphones.
But if it ends all reviews like this. But is it possible that there is no headphone that works well without equalization? Are all headphones not recommended without equalization? Come on...
 

solderdude

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It is really simple.

All headphones can improve in tonality (as in tuned towards a desired target).
Most headphones on this planet are used without EQ and people like it or they don't and look for something else they like better (without EQ).

So sure... there are plenty of headphones people like even without EQ. Those desiring a tonality closer to a specific target can EQ and get them closer to that target. There are many people that actually buy headphones with a specific tonal balance because they don't like the target other people like. Nothing wrong with that as long as people enjoy it.
 

Jimbob54

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But if it ends all reviews like this. But is it possible that there is no headphone that works well without equalization? Are all headphones not recommended without equalization? Come on...

If you can stomach paying $4000 for a pair, you get your wish with the DCA Stealth.....

Dont forget it all depends on personal preferences and tolerances. For some , the Harman/Amir target might be the only sound signature that satisfies. Others might be perfectly happy to enjoy different sonic presentations that deviate.

That said, low distortion, good bass extension and a smooth FR shouldnt be (and isnt) unobtainable at reasonable price regardless of what the sound signature is like out of the box. At which point, its not worth worrying IF you can and will EQ.
 

Giangi71

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It is really simple.

All headphones can improve in tonality (as in tuned towards a desired target).
Most headphones on this planet are used without EQ and people like it or they don't and look for something else they like better (without EQ).

So sure... there are plenty of headphones people like even without EQ. Those desiring a tonality closer to a specific target can EQ and get them closer to that target. There are many people that actually buy headphones with a specific tonal balance because they don't like the target other people like. Nothing wrong with that as long as people enjoy it.
I understand. But what would the goal be? Get as close as possible to the Harman curve? But is this really what is required? I tried to equalize the Liric following it to the letter, but in my view they become flat and lose the main peculiarities and, in conclusion, one cannot "advise against" or "not recommend" a headphone if not equalized. It's not a bad headphone first and it won't be a much better headphone afterwards.
 

Giangi71

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If you can stomach paying $4000 for a pair, you get your wish with the DCA Stealth.....

Dont forget it all depends on personal preferences and tolerances. For some , the Harman/Amir target might be the only sound signature that satisfies. Others might be perfectly happy to enjoy different sonic presentations that deviate.

That said, low distortion, good bass extension and a smooth FR shouldnt be (and isnt) unobtainable at reasonable price regardless of what the sound signature is like out of the box. At which point, its not worth worrying IF you can and will EQ.
Ahhh I get it, so do you think a $ 100 headphone, when equalized according to this principle, sounds like a $ 4,000 headphone? Is this the goal?
 

solderdude

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I understand. But what would the goal be? Get as close as possible to the Harman curve? But is this really what is required? I

For a lot of people the goal might well be close to the Harman curve. It has been determined that the majority of listeners prefer this tonal balance.

Some prefer a different tonal balance for who knows whatever reason. Nothing wrong with that. For those people getting close to Harman is not important but getting close to ones personal taste is. This can be achieved using EQ or by selecting headphones that sound close to their preference without any EQ.

So not everyone's goal, when buying a headphone, is the same. Some even buy them as a fashion accessory and are more concerned about how they look than how they sound. Some buy headphones because they need one and buy the cheapest possible. Some are horders (guilty.. a bit) or like to change them now and then for whatever reason.
The only goal they have in common is you need one to listen to it when speakers are not an option.
 
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Giangi71

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For a lot of people the goal might well be close to the Harman curve. It has been determined that the majority of listeners prefer this tonal balance.

Some prefer a different tonal balance for who knows whatever reason. Nothing wrong with that. For those people getting close to Harman is not important but getting close to ones personal taste is. This can be achieved using EQ or by selecting headphones that sound close to their preference without any EQ.

So not everyone's goal, when buying a headphone, is the same.
Ok, I agree perfectly and tastes are tastes. But you cannot advise against a headphone just because it is not equalized and recommend it if it is equalized because it is closest to the Harman curve. So Amir is addressing only and exclusively to those looking for that correspondence?
 

solderdude

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This is Amirs website. He can do as he pleases. Amir also already explained his reasons. To him (as well as most others) a headphone close to or EQ'ed to the Harman target sounds best.
In that light Amir can certainly state headphone X does not sound great without EQ and good with EQ to Harman target.
He is not wrong in the majority of cases and in his case.
That doesn't mean it is a bad headphone nor does he state it is. Just that it is or is not recommended with or without EQ. He does not pass judgement on people liking a reviewed headphone (EQ'ed or not)
 

Giangi71

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This is Amirs website. He can do as he pleases. Amir also already explained his reasons. To him (as well as most others) a headphone close to or EQ'ed to the Harman target sounds best.
In that light Amir can certainly state headphone X does not sound great without EQ and good with EQ to Harman target.
He is not wrong in the majority of cases and in his case.
That doesn't mean it is a bad headphone nor does he state it is. Just that it is or is not recommended with or without EQ. He does not pass judgement on people liking a reviewed headphone (EQ'ed or not)
They are all not suggested without EQ. Tell me some headphones suggested without EQ
 

Jimbob54

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Ahhh I get it, so do you think a $ 100 headphone, when equalized according to this principle, sounds like a $ 4,000 headphone? Is this the goal?
Not in my book. I'm saying what the core building blocks of a potentially pleasing headphone for a lot of people could be if they are prepared to season to taste.

I don't subscribe to the whole "eq makes them all alike" mantra. The diversity of anatomy as well as measurement limitations makes that impossible before we even begin to look at the HP themselves and their limitations.

But you can certainly make any headphone more pleasing to any individual with some eq. And if they have those core priorities I mentioned and you have decent measurements and an understanding of what you like you can be onto a winner . Which is exactly what amirm does and reports on.
 
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Giangi71

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Not in my book. I'm saying what the core building blocks of a potentially pleasing headphone for a lot of people could be if they are prepared to season to taste.

I don't subscribe to the whole "eq makes them all alike" mantra. The diversity of anatomy as well as measurement limitations makes that impossible before we even begin to look at the HP themselves and their limitations.

But you can certainly make any headphone more pleasing to any individual eq. And if they have those core priorities I mentioned and you have decent measurements and an understanding of what you like you can be onto a winner . Which is exactly what amirm does and reports on.
Ok, but on what basis? On what principles? Still on the Harman curve?
 

solderdude

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They are all not suggested without EQ. Tell me some headphones suggested without EQ

DCA AEON closed
DCA stealth
HD560S spring to mind. To me the HD560S needs some treble reduced so yes, this also needs EQ
PC38X
K371
HD600/HD650
Hifiman HE6 (original)
EMU teak

just to name but a few
 
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Jimbob54

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Ok, but on what basis? On what principles? Still on the Harman curve?
Any target curve is a reference point. There's very valid reasons why Amir and others use Harman but pick your own. You still won't find a hp that hits that curve exactly either, hence eq will improve it. Especially if it has good bass extension, low distortion and smooth FR out of the box.
 
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