Meyer Sound Amie Monitor Review

[Adi777]

Ok, so now something for real men's - Bluehorn. Lol

 

[Tovarich007]

Not competitive with the Genelec/Neumann level at all.

Well, this is indeed a harsh judgment (as we too often read on the net) I can't approve. Maybe partly true considering the price/performance ratio, but not for the overall quality. Meyer Sound monitors are very expensive indeed, they are ugly utiliterian looking ok, but they're also top notch for quality (never hared of their Bluehorn ?).

Meyer Sound is everything but a cottage industry (@Ilkness, you'd rather inform yourself instead of writing b...it like this !), but probably one of the two best and technically more advanced brands on the market for very high quality PA and large systems for live music, which is a field far more complex to design and build than studio monitoring or hifi, the other one being the french firm L. Acoustics. IMHO, all the other large systems makers are one step behind.

The AMIE nearfield monitor was intended for being mostly used with a sub and using a digital EQ provided by Meyer, something close from the SMART/GLM system.
This model was released at least 5 or 6 years ago, II don't doubt if will sooner or later replaced by a model including more digital connections and corrections.

Another thing : as useful and meaningful as the measures can be, the measurments don't tell the all story about the sound, maybe 90 % but not 100%. . For once, in this test, Amir puts the focus on his appreciation of the sound, which is rarely the case in his reviews, based mainly on sophisticated and very useful measurments, (which I greatly appreciate, I am not a crazy subjectivist audiophile taking snake oil for the truth). But Amir demonstrates here than we listen with ears and brain, not with a test equipment (and, the measured performance on this model are overall very good, of course.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Well, this is indeed a harsh judgment (as we too often read on the net) I can't approve. Maybe partly true considering the price/performance ratio, but not for the overall quality. Meyer Sound monitors are very expensive indeed, they are ugly utiliterian looking ok, but they're also top notch for quality (never hared of their Bluehorn ?).

Meyer Sound is everything but a cottage industry (@Ilkness, you'd rather inform yourself instead of writing b...it like this !), but probably one of the two best and technically more advanced brands on the market for very high quality PA and large systems for live music, which is a field far more complex to design and build than studio monitoring or hifi, the other one being the french firm L. Acoustics. IMHO, all the other large systems makers are one step behind.

The AMIE nearfield monitor was intended for being mostly used with a sub and using a digital EQ provided by Meyer, something close from the SMART/GLM system.
This model was released at least 5 or 6 years ago, II don't doubt if will sooner or later replaced by a model including more digital connections and corrections.

Another thing : as useful and meaningful as the measures can be, the measurments don't tell the all story about the sound, maybe 90 % but not 100%. . For once, in this test, Amir puts the focus on his appreciation of the sound, which is rarely the case in his reviews, based mainly on sophisticated and very useful measurments, (which I greatly appreciate, I am not a crazy subjectivist audiophile taking snake oil for the truth). But Amir demonstrates here than we listen with ears and brain, not with a test equipment (and, the measured performance on this model are overall very good, of course.

Despite everything you wrote
I'd never pay $8K for a 7 inch 2-way
How is it better than KH150,KH310,8351?

 

[changer]

Score is 5.1 and would be 7.3 with a perfect subwoofer (which is likely the case with the Amie sub).
The speaker is very well optimised and I would not used an EQ with it. It looks better on the on-axis and listening window but I am not convince by the change in the PIR and you can see the negative effect in the histogram. I would need to listen to it to see if that makes a positive and audible difference.
With EQ, score would increase marginally up to 5.6 (resp. 7.8 with sub).

View attachment 315908

EQ for Meyer Sound Amie computed from ASR data
Preference Score 5.15 with EQ 5.61
Generated from http://github.com/pierreaubert/spinorama/generate_peqs.py v0.25
Dated: 2023-10-01-14:55:41

Preamp: -2.7 dB

Filter  1: ON PK Fc    58 Hz Gain -1.52 dB Q 2.99
Filter  2: ON PK Fc    95 Hz Gain +0.99 dB Q 1.87
Filter  3: ON PK Fc   260 Hz Gain +1.80 dB Q 2.99
Filter  4: ON PK Fc   560 Hz Gain +1.23 dB Q 2.98
Filter  5: ON PK Fc  1429 Hz Gain +1.20 dB Q 2.95
Filter  6: ON PK Fc  4051 Hz Gain +1.01 dB Q 2.94
Filter  7: ON PK Fc 10341 Hz Gain +2.65 dB Q 0.53

Basically the same results as the 708p, with a lead of 0.1 pre/post EQ

 

[JayGilb]

8.000 $ for a pair of 6" 2 ways monitors?
Total waste...

These are professional monitor speakers and the customer base is not directed toward "home users". Meyer Sound caters to arena level sound systems as well as recording studios.

 

[Ilkless]

Well, this is indeed a harsh judgment (as we too often read on the net) I can't approve. Maybe partly true considering the price/performance ratio, but not for the overall quality. Meyer Sound monitors are very expensive indeed, they are ugly utiliterian looking ok, but they're also top notch for quality (never hared of their Bluehorn ?).

Meyer Sound is everything but a cottage industry (@Ilkness, you'd rather inform yourself instead of writing b...it like this !), but probably one of the two best and technically more advanced brands on the market for very high quality PA and large systems for live music, which is a field far more complex to design and build than studio monitoring or hifi, the other one being the french firm L. Acoustics. IMHO, all the other large systems makers are one step behind.

The AMIE nearfield monitor was intended for being mostly used with a sub and using a digital EQ provided by Meyer, something close from the SMART/GLM system.
This model was released at least 5 or 6 years ago, II don't doubt if will sooner or later replaced by a model including more digital connections and corrections.

Another thing : as useful and meaningful as the measures can be, the measurments don't tell the all story about the sound, maybe 90 % but not 100%. . For once, in this test, Amir puts the focus on his appreciation of the sound, which is rarely the case in his reviews, based mainly on sophisticated and very useful measurments, (which I greatly appreciate, I am not a crazy subjectivist audiophile taking snake oil for the truth). But Amir demonstrates here than we listen with ears and brain, not with a test equipment (and, the measured performance on this model are overall very good, of course.

Two "best" and inability to eliminate port resonance from the summed FR, where competing brands have done so through extensive computer simulation, does not compute. Not to mention the 10kHz DI bump. There's no psychoacoustic evidence to prove the benefits of a sudden DI bump there, and one can only conclude given that completely smooth/flat DI has been achieved past that range, that Meyer is simply incapable of achieving it.

I think clearly Neumann/Genelec have pulled so far ahead that previously engineering-centric brands like ATC/Meyer simply can't keep up.

 

[changer]

Despite that the Amie is not using SOTA waveguide technology and port resonance suppression, the woofer is very capable and the system will give an effortless, big sound.

But not in every aspect: A very important information is that it suffers from the same issue as most studio monitors do, that is, a small soundstage due to restricted horizontal radiation pattern. Given that the GGNKT M1 and soon the Kii 7 populate a similar price range, for home listening, I don’t see why one would want to use it. While dynamically large, the spaciousness is small.

With my eyes closed, the sound would come very focused form the speaker itself. Of course this is in mono. In stereo you would get a center image but I expect overall effect to be a smaller, more focused soundstage.

 

[Toni Mas]

These are professional monitor speakers and the customer base is not directed toward "home users". Meyer Sound caters to arena level sound systems as well as recording studios.

Yes i know that... Studio gear to monitor the sound track of IA generated movies by their neighbour customers from Hollywood...

 

[GXAlan]

I think the narrow directivity which created the poor spatial effects that Amir mentioned would be a kill-off for me - ie it resulting that Amir felt like the music was only coming directly from the point source of the speaker rather than being more diffuse. I've got some good/wide directivity JBL 308p speakers and one of the most enjoyable aspects is that the speakers just disappear and you get a soundstage that extends smoothly between both speakers and even beyond the sides of the speakers - if instead it sounded like the music was coming directly from the speakers then this would be an immediate "no go" for me, so these narrow directivity "point source" Meyer Sound speakers being reviewed here would be an instant "no go". I marked them down for cost and also this lack of soundstage.

This is weird because I agree with your comments about not wanting sound that easily comes from the speaker. I have the JBL 708P which, in stereo, I find that the speakers disappear but you have very little front to back cues and I get more of a headphone like sensation.

With the Meyer, the speakers disappear in stereo, the center focus wasn’t as crisp actually but it may be the FR, but it feels like the walls of my room just moved back a lot!

I think the “spatial” effects from the room reflections that make it sound bigger in mono are different in stereo. You do get outside the speaker effects too, which I have been told is achieved with phase effects.

I dislike working with small monitors like these, since they simply cannot offer the output and tactile sensation in the midbass range even with subwoofers. Seems like a compromise.

They would be perfectly suited for broadcast engineer use for live events however, who work for a production firm that carries a Meyer inventory.

Yeah, and these can very easily be part of the negotiation with a $1M purchase.

However the issue in my experience is midbass output capability. Any legitimate implementation of these would use subwoofer(s) but physically a 6.5” cannot move as much air to play a mid-bass focused “tactile chest slam” as a larger driver, subwoofer or not, especially not at reference levels.

That’s right. I didn’t have much time to listen before shipping them off. What I found was that the 708P went deeper the Amie could push higher SPLs in mid bass, so there was more tactile feeling. Not to the level of a full sized speaker but a lot more than I was expecting.

In Meyers papers you can find 2 different specifications:

1. "Nominal Input Level: +4 dBu or –10 dBV, switchable". (Note +4dBu is 1.228V, the American pro audio standard. -10dBV used to be the consumer standard)
2. "Nominal Input Sensitivity: 6dBV (2.0 V rms)". (Note that this is less sensitive than the European Pro audio standard, being +6dBu or 1.55Vrms)

The old HD-1 had gain options but the Amie truly does not. This is fixed at the 2V option.

Given that KH150 seems to measure flatter out of the box, doesn't have resonances from the port, has built-in DSP/EQ and is a lot cheaper I also can't help thinking it is a better value out of the two.

The best value right now is the 708P I am selling!

Withdrawn: JBL 708P for sale. SF Bay Area

Pair of JBL 708P’s with original packaging/boxes. Withdrawn. Handing them to a family member who can use them.

www.audiosciencereview.com

I need to clear out unused audio gear and a head to head against the KH150 makes sense.

I think the KH150 benefits from almost a decade of newer experience and lower cost of production.

Basically the same results as the 708p, with a lead of 0.1 pre/post EQ

Which is weird because they sound so different in room!

it suffers from the same issue as most studio monitors do, that is, a small soundstage due to restricted horizontal radiation pattern.

And this is where having two speakers in room is so different. They sound really big in my room, not small in the nearfield. Remember, I have the Bose 901 in a big room.

This is exactly the “stated” problem that Meyer Sound was asked to address from Skywalker Sound. Their dubbing stages needed smaller speakers but the existing monitors available to them didn’t translate into the full size cinemas.

The Amie claims to achieve this with the subwoofer and you can see the links above about the simulations they did for the sub integration.

We don’t know if that is pure marketing BS or not, but we have objective measurements.

And what we see is that even though the 708P and Amie have the same preference score, there is clearly a difference in estimated in room response and difference in directivity with a step off in the DI. So at least we know they are different as opposed to speaker cables which null identically.

And I am saying with my ears, while I am in my return window for the Amie, that they really do have a sensation of being in a big room. I will need to do some binaural recordings and have people take a blind test.

 

[pma]

Keep in mind that this is a small and light speaker yet plays as if it is much larger.

This is important. Some active mini monitors have excellent measurements, flat, controlled directivity, but do sound “small”.

 

[Ra1zel]

Cabinet resonance almost as strong as direct sound, no thanks, and this "wonder of engineering" for only 4000 USD each.

 

[changer]

Let’s untangle all of this:

(1)

And this is where having two speakers in room is so different. They sound really big in my room, not small in the nearfield. ...

This is exactly the “stated” problem that Meyer Sound was asked to address from Skywalker Sound.

(2)

Their dubbing stages needed smaller speakers but the existing monitors available to them didn’t translate into the full size cinemas.

(3)

And I am saying with my ears, while I am in my return window for the Amie, that they really do have a sensation of being in a big room.

The sensation of being in a big room is related to early reflections. And in this sense, the Amies are more restricted than the JBL 708p, where they can, which is at the tweeter passband. The absence of early reflections is what indicates the big room. However, for low mids, only a cardioid design such as the GGNTKT M1 will offer more directivity, or a wide baffle and a “big“ woofer, as in the Grimm Audio LS1, where the 8.5 inch woofer sits on a 20 inch baffle.

A different thing is spaciousness. Spaciousness is how extended the stereo image appears, which is related to horizontal early reflections, especially in the passband of the tweeter (speaking 2-way). A tightly controlled, sub 50 degree pattern will benefit image quality, but at the cost of a small image that sticks to the speaker (mono,) or is a strong but focussed center image (stereo). Usually, these radiation patterns will sound very focused, Erin has often highlighted this.

To my knowledge, directivity in the lower frequencies is what sets apart any speaker to truly present a “big room“ sound. The compromise of state of the art HiFi speaker developers such as Grimm, Kii, D&D and I would add GGNTKT, is to create directionality down to low mids/upper bass for big room sound and use a shallow waveguide for increased spaciousness.* I assume what you perceive as a big sound with the Amie is related to the woofer not distorting and the warmer tonality. The JBL probably sounds more tinny, while the Amie benefits from more atmosphere.

From subjective reviews of the cardiod speakers I learned, however, that paradoxically the brighter signature of wider top end radiation is balanced by the directivity in the low end.

The very important difference in the case of the studio you have mentioned is: they use the speaker in a multichannel setup, not stereo. This is different. And then, there is another thing: if your listening room is relatively large for a small room acoustics situation, you might listen to the speakers from further away. In my experience, if you can listen from 4 or 5 meters instead of 3, the increased listening distance, and hence higher ratio of early reflections vs direct sound, will help a big deal with narrow radiating speakers to give a more spacious impression.


*Then there is DiY people, who create spaciousness with a Haas kicker, that even allows to reduce early reflections and yet retain spaciousness, but that is another story.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

Good god man, $8,000. These are a purchase when you can write them off against a business or use them in professional applications of some sort. Or, for the purchaser who, for one reason or another, MUST burn through cash in a hurry.

 

[phoenixsong]

I'd be tempted to save up for the Dutch & Dutch 8C Studio (covered in Amir's Pacific Audio Fest 2023) instead- at least that seems much more special

 

[dfuller]

But appart from the distortion, which you don't systematically (never ?) publish above 96dB, what measurement could highlight and immediately prove the dynamic capability of a speaker ?

Erin's usual choice is compression testing, which apparently is kind of a pain to do, but it does show a speaker's limits pretty well.

I'd be tempted to save up for the Dutch & Dutch 8C Studio (covered in Amir's Pacific Audio Fest 2023) instead- at least that seems much more special

The 8C is special, though its max SPL is not particularly high (I believe it's about 105dB/1m according to D&D)... that said, Erin pushed a pair to 100dB at 4m (so 112dB/1m, 106dB per speaker) and didn't notice any strain.

 

[Robbo99999]

I agree. The panther isn't much help because we don't all have one (or am I one of the odd-ones-out?). I suggest a CD case or LP sleeve.

Actually, a virtual ruler discreetly placed to one side (discreetly so it doesn't encroach on the pic) would be better. I like the panthers on their own next to the speaker, a CD case in every shot would eventually detract from the aesthetic, a thin virtual ruler all the way off to the right would be way better, at far far right of frame, just a few black lines & marks.

 

[changer]

There is compression tests in this Anselm Goertz review of the Amie.

Looks like a pretty good match with previous measurements:

Test: Meyer Sound Amie | Production Partner

Die Meyer-Sound-Monitore des Amie-System eignen sich für Stereo- oder Multikanal-Abhören. Im Test schauen wir uns die Eigenschaften des ...

www.production-partner.de

His "powercompression" test follows a different protocol than Erin's:

The second method used to determine the maximum level is the multitone measurement. The measurement signal consists of 60 sine signals with random phase and a weighting according to EIA-426B. The crest factor of the measurement signal synthesized in this way is a practical value of 4 (corresponding to 12 dB). A great advantage of this measurement method is the possibility to measure synchronously and to obtain the signal spectrum directly via FFT, from which all newly added distortion components can be easily analyzed. This applies to both harmonic distortion (THD) and all intermodulation distortion (IMD). The sum of all distortions is then called Total Distortion (TD). As with the sine burst measurement, a distortion value can also be defined as a limit value for the multitone measurement.

As a second criterion in addition to the distortion components, power compression can also be evaluated with this measurement. To do this, the measurement series is first started with a low level in the linear working range of the loudspeaker, at which no power compression occurs. Starting from this value, the level is then increased in 1 dB steps. At some point, the loudspeaker will no longer follow these level increases either broadband or only in individual frequency bands. As limit values for the power compression it was defined that the values may not exceed 2 dB in the broadband and 3 dB in individual frequency bands.



Fig. 10 shows the evaluation of the power compression for the Amie monitor. Starting from the initial value with an average level of 92 dB, the power compression limit was reached at +12 dB (yellow curve in Fig. 10). The spectra measured during this process are shown in Fig. 11.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[uwotm8]

Move to the left or right a few inches and highs drop right off

This is unacceptable for home listening IMO especially regarding the price.

KH150 hits 1% only at 40Hz at 86dB. Without having to deal with all the little jaggy resonances this Meyer has.

Plus, waveguide engineering has proceeded way past the 10kHz DI bump this has. Seems like these guys haven't gotten the memo and are coasting off blind worship of their cottage industry designs like ATC.

Totally agree.

But yeah, I believe it can play clean and loud and that sort of saw-like midrange can actually sound pleasant, "with a bit extra pepper and salt".

Would definitely NOT buy these. DD 8s are not that far while are on a different level. Or you can get any Neumann for that money. Dynaudios, KEFs, Focals etc etc.

 

[GXAlan]

I assume what you perceive as a big sound with the Amie is related to the woofer not distorting and the warmer tonality. The JBL probably sounds more tinny, while the Amie benefits from more atmosphere.

It's hard to say -- I notice this even at moderate SPLs and I had the JBL 4319 which has low distortion on 12" woofer, but doesn't have the same characteristic even if you adjust the EQ for a warm tilt. The JBL 708P is more forward not necessarily tinny, but there is a difference in perceived sound stage even with a mono speaker in how the vocals lie in position relative to the rest of the band.

In my experience, if you can listen from 4 or 5 meters instead of 3, the increased listening distance, and hence higher ratio of early reflections vs direct sound, will help a big deal with narrow radiating speakers to give a more spacious impression.

I have a larger room with different speakers; these Amie's will be used at about 8 feet listening distance.

Good god man, $8,000. These are a purchase when you can write them off against a business or use them in professional applications of some sort. Or, for the purchaser who, for one reason or another, MUST burn through cash in a hurry.

The Amie is an overpriced speaker that doesn't compete well with other current speaker options. If looking for a small speaker the Neumann KH150 does the job nicely at a much lower price point. And if you are looking to fill a larger room the cost of the Amie is within 80% of my Revel F328Be. Why someone would buy the Amie is a head scratcher.

Looking at the residual price of the older Meyer HD-1, I sort of look at these like parking my money somewhere for a while. But yes, life's short and sometimes you have the luxury of making the decision with your heart not your brain. The heart was having the same speakers as Skywalker Sound. The brain is sending this in to see how in measures when the stated intent by the manufacturer isn't revealing what's on a recording but providing a method to hear the larger speakers in a smaller space with sufficient sonic transparency. At least based upon my subjective impressions, I think the sound genuinely convey a large cinema sound in a way that I didn't expect. Sending these in for a spin will let the curious and DIY'ers see if they replicate any of the concepts tested here and get the same effect. I cannot fit the Revel F328Be on my Elfa wall unit shelf and they're pretty hard to ship if I move or do need to sell them.

The Neumann KH150 is the pacing challenge to beat. At $3500, they are a true bargain compared these. In keeping with my belief about measurements and science, it's pretty clear they're the better choice for most people, most of the time.

For value though, I had to weigh the circle of confusion given how much content I listen to that is mixed at places like Skywalker Sound, is something that I was willing to pay more for.

Audio's Circle of Confusion

Audio’s “Circle of Confusion” is a term coined by Floyd Toole [1] that describes the confusion that exists within the audio recording and r...

seanolive.blogspot.com

"... a recording that is too bright can make a dull loudspeaker sound good, and an accurate loudspeaker sound too bright."

You can now try to EQ your Neumann KH150, Genelec, or JBL 708P to have the same sort of downtrending FR that the Amie is producing to better simulate what the engineers heard, but how did you know what EQ to apply to your gear? Someone had to buy one first and send it to Amir...

When I get these back, I'm going to try listening to some Christopher Nolan films on these. People always talk about his dialogue being hard to hear, but the DGA with his committee went with Meyer Sound, maybe it turns out that it sounds fine on the Meyer Amie.

 

[Robbo99999]

This is weird because I agree with your comments about not wanting sound that easily comes from the speaker. I have the JBL 708P which, in stereo, I find that the speakers disappear but you have very little front to back cues and I get more of a headphone like sensation.

With the Meyer, the speakers disappear in stereo, the center focus wasn’t as crisp actually but it may be the FR, but it feels like the walls of my room just moved back a lot!

I think the “spatial” effects from the room reflections that make it sound bigger in mono are different in stereo. You do get outside the speaker effects too, which I have been told is achieved with phase effects.

We certainly agree the speakers disappear in our two cases (you with your 708p and me with my 308p (both JBL)), and it's perhaps a little true what you say re headphone sound, but that's only because the speakers disappear and I feel totally engulfed by the musical stage - it spreads within me and all around to the sides - it's an imaginary soundfield that is a result of the music design and fact that the speakers dissolve (no sensation of two point sources). On some tracks there are effects that even reach behind my head - I think this is on tracks where they have purposefully baked in HRTF effects into the music, so they've probably used some kind of generic HRTF to simulate effects moving behind the head. Crazily there was this one track from Massive Attack where there was one effect that was doing a figure 8 motion (lying on it's side, infinity symbol) behind my head (so height effects baked in too). Now some of these baked in HRTF effects are very dependant on how attentive I'm being and how involved I am in the music, and it doesn't always work to the same extent on each listen - I don't do drugs by the way, lol! I've noticed similar effects in some tracks by other artists too, Aurora's Forgotten Love is one example that comes to mind; but, yeah, you can do a lot with two channel with the right system (and highly dependant on the tracks).