Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

[antcollinet]

..... The great sounding units tend to have highly developed analog amplification sections and power supplies that can make the sound more refined, energetic and dynamic.....

And the impact of all that great development shows up on the analogue output of the device - where it can be measured.

..... Look under the hood......

No need - everything we need to know still appears on the output of a DAC.

 

[Robin L]

Late to the thread but you are showing your naivete'- big time. But I know how it is, believing you can make broad sweeping assumptions that must be facts because measurements say it is so and that you are unable to hear any differences in your budget gear.
First off DACs (and CD players) can sound markedly different from one another and not for the reasons you might think. The great sounding units tend to have highly developed analog amplification sections and power supplies that can make the sound more refined, energetic and dynamic. Look under the hood.
Actually don't- just stick to your DragonFly USB though, that's all you need right?

Incorrect, you have to stay awake and pay attention, so here goes. The combination of distortion and noise for the Dragonfly is 76 db. That will be audible. The Dragonfly appears to be a bad DAC, it costs $300. This is Amir's review:

AudioQuest Dragonfly Cobalt Review (Portable Headphone Adapter)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AudioQuest Dragonfly Cobalt portable DAC and headphone amplifier ("dongle"). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $300. The Dragonfly Cobalt dates way back to when these dongles came in the form of USB flash Thumb drives: This makes...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The Topping E30 DAC costs $150, has much better performance. Its combination of distortion and noise is 112 db below the signal. This is very close to the limit of what is audible and for most people [99.9%] its performance will not contribute any audible noise or distortion:

Topping E30 DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping E30 USB DAC. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing. Unfortunately I did not get pricing information. As soon as I get it, I will post it. EDIT: just heard back. US cost is just $129.99! This is a bit of a new look...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If there was a DBT between the Topping E30 and anything else with better measurements, it would be nearly impossible to find anyone who could reliably identify which was which as the level of noise and distortion is so low, only the very freshest ears [no one over 30, by way of example] auditing with the lowest background noise have a shot of hearing a difference. On the other hand, the Totaldac-d1-six goes for a little less than $14,000, performs only slightly better than the Dragonfly and much, much worse than the Topping E30.

Review and Measurements of Totaldac d1-six DAC

This is a review of the Totaldac d1-six DAC and headphone amplifier. It was kindly shipped from europe to me for testing by a member at a high shipping cost of over 200 euros. The d1-six costs 13,500 euros including VAT in Europe and $12,400 for export. The latter translates into US $13,816...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So there is a difference, but that difference is not correlated to cost. One does not need to look "under the hood" but it does help to look at the measurements at the outputs.

 

[magicscreen]

The Topping E30 DAC costs $150, has much better performance.

Please, stop this bullshit.
My Sansa Clip+ mp3 player has better sound than my Jds Atom amp.
So what are the measurements good for? For nothing.

 

[Robin L]

Please, stop this bullshit.
My Sansa Clip+ mp3 player has better sound than my Jds Atom amp.
So what are the measurements good for? For nothing.

Kinda doubt it. The E30 performs real well. A Sansa clip has more going on than just a DAC. So you're comparing apples to kumquats. I was comparing like to like. I'm not sure what your issue is. An awful lot of angry for no apparent reason.

 

[Jimbob54]

Please, stop this bullshit.
My Sansa Clip+ mp3 player has better sound than my Jds Atom amp.
So what are the measurements good for? For nothing.

U lost hun?

 

[SIY]

Please, stop this bullshit.
My Sansa Clip+ mp3 player has better sound than my Jds Atom amp.
So what are the measurements good for? For nothing.

Cool story, bro.

 

[MaxBuck]

Please, stop this bullshit.
My Sansa Clip+ mp3 player has better sound than my Jds Atom amp.
So what are the measurements good for? For nothing.

The Sansa clip was a super convenient mp3 player for going out on a walk or run. Good memories!

 

[Killingbeans]

Definitely. I still have my old Clip in a drawer/box somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

WOW .... Good thing I'm not an audiophile!

Most people use their systems to listen to music
Audiophiles use music to listen to their systems.

 

[Robin L]

WOW .... Good thing I'm not an audiophile!

Most people use their systems to listen to music
Audiophiles use music to listen to their systems.

I'd say there's something more in-between, and that in-betweeness has to do with how different people respond to music. I'd say if you're a Lute player, you would be sensitive to pitch and sonority in such a way that a realistic presentation of volume and bass would be too much. You might choose some British mini-monitors with that BBC tuning, a little suck-out in the upper mids, a bit of a boost in the upper treble, nothing below 70 hz and be satisfied with a delicacy and detail that corresponds to your instrument. And in turn, the electric guitarist is going to look for a lot more volume and bass. It would be very difficult to have a system that would do both equally well. So subjective choice is, after all, rationally choosing between options based on one's own likes and dislikes, including genres. Having dependable, repeatable measurements gives us an idea of what to expect. After that, one makes one's choices and pays one's money.

I opt for something that can tell me what's going on without burning my ears out. I listen to a lot of sonically subpar recordings from the 78 era, so the smooth presentation of treble that the Drop 6XX's have might not be exactly perfectly "accurate" but it makes listening to old Billy Holiday and Charlie Parker recordings a bit easier, while still giving me a sense of the quality of acoustic capture in the splendid series "Voices of Music"---a really fine example of purist recording of music worth listening to. Maybe not "two microphones and that's that" purist, but having the right microphones in the right places, minimal post-production, a good sense of the acoustic space the music was recorded in along with music worth recording:

 

[Newman]

WOW .... Good thing I'm not an audiophile!

Most people use their systems to listen to music
Audiophiles use music to listen to their systems.

Rubbish. And an insult. That’s your style?

 

[Deleted member 46664]

Rubbish. And an insult. That’s your style?

Good lord ... that's one of the oldest jokes in the hobby.

 

[Newman]

Good lord ...

Oh, so you believe the opposite?

Just remember this: “I was only joking” is never an acceptable comeback to having one’s insult called. Nor is the standard second line of retort, “You sure lack humour”, just in case that was on the tip of your pen. Too many people think the internet discussion communities are perfect for sarcastic and mocking quips, and that hanging an emoji off such style makes it all as-cool-as-can-be. It simply doesn’t work. Vocal tone is absent, and these communities are international, with many readers not English-first-language. Best to say what you actually mean.

And I wasn’t the only one. At least Robin L now knows that his long reply on your point was unnecessary, because…you were only joking.

 

[antcollinet]

OMG - seriously get a life. If you feel that is an insult, you need to expose yourself to the real world a little.

And who was insulted? Audiophiles? Jeez.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

I love music and have since buying my first Beatles album in 1967 at 9 years old.
But I sure enjoy good sound too. And varieties of good sound. I also DIY speakers and the same tracks get played repeatedly on various systems and speakers in my house just for the joy of the sound itself. Like wine, speakers are all different despite attempts at the absolute sound. And like wine different varieties offer different pleasures.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

And I wasn’t the only one. At least Robin L now knows that his long reply on your point was unnecessary, because…you were only joking.

Nope sorry ... I'm not going to fight with you.

 

[JRS]

I love music and have since buying my first Beatles album in 1967 at 9 years old.
But I sure enjoy good sound too. And varieties of good sound. I also DIY speakers and the same tracks get played repeatedly on various systems and speakers in my house just for the joy of the sound itself. Like wine, speakers are all different despite attempts at the absolute sound. And like wine different varieties offer different pleasures.

Well said. One of the things I absolutely love about DIY--so many flavors of fine.

 

[pablolie]

WOW .... Good thing I'm not an audiophile!

Most people use their systems to listen to music
Audiophiles use music to listen to their systems.

It's funny, but I know people who try to listen to music through poor systems, and suddenly discover a whole different world when they listen to a good system. I know because I have converted several.

I also indeed do know "audiophiles" that are system obsessed, sadly. It is indeed about the music.

 

[Newman]

Hey, Mr Blake’s only joking, he meant the opposite AFAICT.

 

[Robin L]

Oh, so you believe the opposite?

Just remember this: “I was only joking” is never an acceptable comeback to having one’s insult called. Nor is the standard second line of retort, “You sure lack humour”, just in case that was on the tip of your pen. Too many people think the internet discussion communities are perfect for sarcastic and mocking quips, and that hanging an emoji off such style makes it all as-cool-as-can-be. It simply doesn’t work. Vocal tone is absent, and these communities are international, with many readers not English-first-language. Best to say what you actually mean.

And I wasn’t the only one. At least Robin L now knows that his long reply on your point was unnecessary, because…you were only joking.

One doesn't hear "tone" on internet text exchanges, with the potential exception of emojis [or good writing]. But no matter, I think my post qualifies as information rather than noise, so I have no cause to be perturbed. And I think there is something to the adage in that those that do focus on equipment will often play obsess on a limited number of recordings due to the nature of the recording, rather than the music. I my case I'll repeatedly play "Late in the Evening" by Paul Simon on account of its brass sound, right on the edge of distortion, but just under on good playback gear. Gives the APO equalizer a workout. Similarly Material's "Soul Killer" has a lot of deep electronic bass without overtones, a sound that either will be inaudible with speakers/headphones that cut off at 70hz, or doubling. And there are a lot of people listening to gear that doesn't go down as far as 70hz.

I think people getting absolutist with their "objective" complaints often lose track of how things work out in the real world, partially on account of the Apollonian nature of their complaints.