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Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

anmpr1

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However, the first CD issue of Astral Weeks probably was one of those situations where a production copy was used to master the CD. Much that was wrong with the first issue on CD of Astral weeks has been rectified in later remasters.

In any case, when the subject comes up, she still remembers the LP playback of Astral Weeks as being better.
1) I remember buying the initial CD release of one of the Carpenter's hits LP. Whether you liked their music or not, Karen had the Bene Gesserit 'voice'. But the poorly mastered CD turned that voice into a screech! LOL

2) I'm always suspect when influencers (I refuse to call them 'reviewers', which implies they are somewhat disciplined) bring their wives into the auditory mix. There was a guy working for Stereophile that used to do it all the time. I think waifu's name was Kathleen (don't call her Kathy...). From my experience, women don't care about hi-fi. For her part, my wife would just as soon listen to her Galaxy Note than the stereo. That said, whenever we watch something 'home theater' oriented, she always checks to see if the sub is turned on. I'm not quite sure what that is about! :)
 

Zensō

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That said, whenever we watch something 'home theater' oriented, she always checks to see if the sub is turned on. I'm not quite sure what that is about! :)

She’s probably just being nice to her silly audio-obsessed husband. ;)
 

Robin L

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That said, whenever we watch something 'home theater' oriented, she always checks to see if the sub is turned on. I'm not quite sure what that is about! :)
I would expect the difference to be quite audible with movies.

This also makes me think of two bass-heavy albums by delicate-voiced female singer-songwriters. "Nine Objects of Desire" by Suzanne Vega has as much going on in the lower depths as a hip-hop record:


The track "I Love You" from Sarah McLachlan's "Surfacing" managed to blow out the woofer in one of my Paradigm Atoms, is an alternating bass tone way down there that doesn't reproduce on a lot of speakers:

 

Inner Space

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For her part, my wife would just as soon listen to her Galaxy Note than the stereo. That said, whenever we watch something 'home theater' oriented, she always checks to see if the sub is turned on. I'm not quite sure what that is about! :)
I had a girlfriend once who liked to sit on my bass cab when I was playing. I was pretty clear what that was about ... based on what happened afterward.
 

PenguinMusic

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1) ...

2) From my experience, women don't care about hi-fi. For her part, my wife would just as soon listen to her Galaxy Note than the stereo.
Exactly.

Wives should stay in the kitchen and cook whenever they're not caring about the kids... At least something we can all agree about !



P.S. : I am of course kiddin' right. Please don't report this to Me2...
 

PenguinMusic

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I had a girlfriend once who liked to sit on my bass cab when I was playing. I was pretty clear what that was about ... based on what happened afterward.
Not clear enough to me.
Would you care to be a little more explicit ? A picture may help I think...


P.S. : of course I am just kiddin'... Again.
 

5-pot-fan

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You raise some interesting points, chiefly that the usual measurements of THD, IM and perhaps a few more esoteric forms such as TIM may not completely explain the story, insofar as it relies on the assumption that systems are mostly linear, and the most significant errors can be captured in frequency and phase deviations occurring in amplification and transduction, the latter being moving energy from electrical to mechanical forms in speakers and phonograph cartridges (IMO transduction could also embrace conversion not just in energy but also in forms of information, that is from digital to analog waveforms).

The non-linear errors that introduce new waveforms are assumed to consist entirely of IM and THD, which can be easily measured. That they may not tell the entire story is the consistent observation that we are not annoyed by levels as high as several percent in the case of THD, and even higher when the music is loud. But there are some irritating exceptions as postulated by Geddes in this paper and tested in this one. A forum discussion can be found here and more papers on his website at this link.

I'm not at all qualified to comment on the accuracy of these claims, but they are interesting and curiously largely ignored. Whether that is because subsequent research has shown them to be of trivial magnitude and therefore inconsequential, or whether they are an inconvenient truth I can't say. I just mention this in passing as your comments stimulated my recollection of the debate, but it may be worth pursuing in your quest to identify the "missing" measurements. So have a look at Geddes papers, in particular Part 2 which discusses the GedLee (the two authors, Geddes and Lee combined) metric.
Thank you for the links - will start reading!
 

5-pot-fan

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Query re 'level matching'.
How is this done safely and accurately enough?
Should the outputs of the measured device (e.g. a DAC) be connected to the next item up the chain (towards to speakers) at the same time?
Would a standard electricians voltmeter be good enough, or are we talking lab-spec equipment?
I suspect I could harm my equipment so any advice would be appreciated.
 

Mart68

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. That said, whenever we watch something 'home theater' oriented, she always checks to see if the sub is turned on. I'm not quite sure what that is about! :)
My theory is that secretly they appreciate good sound quality, they just won't say so in case it encourages us to reach for further levels of audio insanity.

I split up with a girlfriend after five years, all perfectly amicable. She liked music but never commented on sound quality, not did she complain about things like large, unfinished DIY loudspeakers sat in the middle of the room. She appeared to be completely agnostic.

About a month after we split she comes round and says 'I've got a turntable and speakers but I need an amplifier, can you help me out?'

So I gave her a Trio receiver I had lying about. Some time after that she moved to another part of the country.

About a year later I go to visit her at her new place. Barely got in the door when she leads me over to where she has her stereo set up.

'I'm not happy with the sound quality' she says. 'I don't think this amp you gave me is any good.'

I was not sure if I had created a monster or if it was there all along, but I suspect the latter.
 

PenguinMusic

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My theory is that secretly they appreciate good sound quality, they just won't say so in case it encourages us to reach for further levels of audio insanity.

I split up with a girlfriend after five years, all perfectly amicable. She liked music but never commented on sound quality, not did she complain about things like large, unfinished DIY loudspeakers sat in the middle of the room. She appeared to be completely agnostic.

About a month after we split she comes round and says 'I've got a turntable and speakers but I need an amplifier, can you help me out?'

So I gave her a Trio receiver I had lying about. Some time after that she moved to another part of the country.

About a year later I go to visit her at her new place. Barely got in the door when she leads me over to where she has her stereo set up.

'I'm not happy with the sound quality' she says. 'I don't think this amp you gave me is any good.'

I was not sure if I had created a monster or if it was there all along, but I suspect the latter.
What do I hear ? A female appreciating stereo and talking about sound being good or not ?

The latter all the way, you are right for sure... :)
 

EdTice

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That said, whenever we watch something 'home theater' oriented, she always checks to see if the sub is turned on. I'm not quite sure what that is about! :)

Why would the sub ever be turned off? This actually seems pretty reasonable to me. At the pedestrian volumes that my wife and I normally listen (60-65dB as measured with my SPL meter), I can turn the subs off and on and you can hear the difference, but the mains (JBL 530) carry enough base that I probably don't even need the subs. (SVS SB2000Pro x 2) But if listening at higher volumes or watching a movie with significant dynamic range, the difference is night and day. Why have a dramatic moment get ruined as that becomes the time you notice the sub is off when you can just check ahead of time?
 

Barry_Sound

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And then you arrived here...and posted about your dac discovery, and were told that a dac shouldn't sound like anything at all! Suddenly your audio reality came crashing down around you. How can this be? Why shouldn't a dac sound great??
Wonder why there are DAC reviews here when they are all the same anyway. :p
 

Jimbob54

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Wonder why there are DAC reviews here when they are all the same anyway. :p
Form, function, engineering prowess etc etc.
 

EdTice

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Wonder why there are DAC reviews here when they are all the same anyway. :p
In case this really isn't trolling, let me answer for future users. If you can "hear" a DAC it means that the DAC is pretty awful. The "good" DACs will measure at a SINAD of 100dB or even 120dB. These DACs don't introduce *zero* distortion but what little the do introduce is inaudible. Hence if you listen to two different 120dB SINAD DACs they will sound identical. That's just how it is. On the other hand, if you listen to two different 50dB DACs, they will likely both sound much different than each other (and different than the 100dB DAC). Of the various DACs, you may *prefer* any one of the three as we all have our own tastes. But the 100dB DAC will be correctly reproducing the original signal. The other two are producing a variation of the original. If one likes the altered output, go ahead and enjoy it. Nobody said all DACs are the same. The good DACs are not audibly different from each other. The best solution is that, if you really enjoy the DAC *not* being transparent is to get a high-quality DAC and then apply some sort of transformation in software. that way if you ever change your mind and want a clean signal you can just remove the transformation
 

antcollinet

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In case this really isn't trolling, let me answer for future users. If you can "hear" a DAC it means that the DAC is pretty awful. The "good" DACs will measure at a SINAD of 100dB or even 120dB. These DACs don't introduce *zero* distortion but what little the do introduce is inaudible. Hence if you listen to two different 120dB SINAD DACs they will sound identical. That's just how it is. On the other hand, if you listen to two different 50dB DACs, they will likely both sound much different than each other (and different than the 100dB DAC). Of the various DACs, you may *prefer* any one of the three as we all have our own tastes. But the 100dB DAC will be correctly reproducing the original signal. The other two are producing a variation of the original. If one likes the altered output, go ahead and enjoy it. Nobody said all DACs are the same. The good DACs are not audibly different from each other. The best solution is that, if you really enjoy the DAC *not* being transparent is to get a high-quality DAC and then apply some sort of transformation in software. that way if you ever change your mind and want a clean signal you can just remove the transformation
This.
 

kongwee

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Just to take note you are listening to chain of components from source-amp-speaker including interconnect and speaker wire. Buy everything from ASR suggestion, your problem will not be solved. ASR only measure at component level, not a component with complete setup. You may end up back to MBL because you are enjoying that sound. Take time to listen to hi-fi show or go to shop with the most brand. I rather spending thousands dollar on trips to listen as much system as possible than take bets at ASR or other forum or youtube. My first hi-fi was $300 after a decade or more jump to $10,000 system. Now reduce to $3,000 to setup for DAW.
 

DonR

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Just to take note you are listening to chain of components from source-amp-speaker including interconnect and speaker wire. Buy everything from ASR suggestion, your problem will not be solved. ASR only measure at component level, not a component with complete setup. You may end up back to MBL because you are enjoying that sound. Take time to listen to hi-fi show or go to shop with the most brand. I rather spending thousands dollar on trips to listen as much system as possible than take bets at ASR or other forum or youtube. My first hi-fi was $300 after a decade or more jump to $10,000 system. Now reduce to $3,000 to setup for DAW.
That is not correct. @amirm often tests the component within the whole chain like in the case of power conditioners to see if it has any measurable effect on other equipment.
 

kongwee

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That is not correct. @amirm often tests the component within the whole chain like in the case of power conditioners to see if it has any measurable effect on other equipment.
Isotek plugging to a Topping amp mean a complete setup. I don't know.
 
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