Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

[Piggyback41]

to neither add nor subtract to the coloration.

Our ears colour it anyway, might as well jive with it. That's called, liking what you hear.

 

[krabapple]

You have preferences different to others? Care to print them measurements out your mouth?

Hmm chatbot, it looks like you're hallucinating.

(How else to explain this word salad you keep emitting?)

Let's try to snap you out of it. Please comment on the use of controls in science, particularly as pertains to audio.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

This new cable is shielded to high frequencies and I have 2mW/m2 1.8ghz signals at the cable from the cell tower near me, that's already billions of times higher than normal natural background microwave levels, I believe QED when they talk about micro timing caused by RFI. It's not just about the cable, it's also how the cable serves the components it's attached to.

I think you are describing a genuine issue. Radio Frequency energy can indeed be channelled in to analogue devices through cabling and affect stability. Well designed analogue electronics should be immune to this, but not all kit is.

If you leave a cable untouched for a while (especially with different metals in the contacts), contaminants can cause diode like behaviour. This can affect RF behaviour. It's a good idea to remake contacts every few months.

 

[Piggyback41]

Hmm chatbot, it looks like you're hallucinating.

(How else to explain this word salad you keep emitting?)

Let's try to snap you out of it. Please comment on the use of controls in science.

You can't measure a person's ear/ear canal/brain colouration, they can tell you... what they like the sound of.... subjective.... unless you want them to print their measurements out of their mouths.

 

[DonR]

You can't measure a person's ear/ear canal/brain colouration, they can tell you... what they like the sound of.... subjective.... unless you want them to print their measurements out of their mouths.

Why should we be interested in what other people like?

 

[Piggyback41]

I think you are describing a genuine issue. Radio Frequency energy can indeed be channelled in to analogue devices through cabling and affect stability. Well designed analogue electronics should be immune to this, but not all kit is.

If you leave a cable untouched for a while (especially with different metals in the contacts), contaminants can cause diode like behaviour. This can affect RF behaviour. It's a good idea to remake contacts every few months.

Thanks. Yeah, that's why I invested into the QED cable that had a Zinc/Mn ferrite alloy, i read, it especially is good for high frequencies in the microwave range (in studies seperate to QED). It was worth the money for that especially.

Yes people, I spent extra money on cables where it was worth it... ooooo.

 

[Piggyback41]

Why should we be interested in what other people like?

General, I mean, we are all generally the same. Like how all neutral speakers are generally neutral. I regard what people say, generally. Like I generally regard measurements.

 

[Killingbeans]

Our ears colour it anyway, might as well jive with it. That's called, liking what you hear.

Again; Nothing wrong with that. It's not just your ears. All of our senses color the things we hear.

If the visual design of your audio gear makes it sound better to you, then by all means enjoy it and be happy.

But don't start confusing cause and effect and make ridiculous claims about it.

 

[krabapple]

Our ears colour it anyway, might as well jive with it. That's called, liking what you hear.

Your brain (well, I'm assuming yours, who knows, chatbot) 'colours' it too. This is called bias. It's a distortion or misperception of the actual. There are books about it, even.

The upshot is that 'colours' you 'hear' may not be real. They may not be an actual output of the thing you are listening to. We can test for that. Or, you are free to prefer the bliss of ignorance. Just don't assert that the source is 'coloured' just because you heard it. You'll have to do better than that.

 

[krabapple]

You can't measure a person's ear/ear canal/brain colouration, they can tell you... what they like the sound of.... subjective.... unless you want them to print their measurements out of their mouths.

This doesn't count as a comment on the use of controls in audio science, chatbot. Please try again.

 

[Piggyback41]

Your brain (well, I'm assuming yours, who knows, chatbot) 'colours' it too. This is called bias. It's a distortion or misperception of the actual. There are books about it, even.

The upshot is that 'colours' you 'hear' may not be real. They may not be an actual output of the thing you are listening to. We can test for that. Or, you are free to prefer the bliss of ignorance. Just don't assert it must be real because you heard it.

If someone enjoys a song, where another doesn't. People get good feelings from songs, when it evokes their own memories, even though the song's lyrics aren't exactly talking to those memories. You calling that distortion of the actual? Sorry Sarah, stop feeling good listening to this song, you're distorting the message. Please.

 

[Piggyback41]

Your brain

Your brain is simplistic. I wouldn't be surprised if you reeled off numbers to people when they ask how you are.

You round up your love for something to the nearest integer. Oh don't invite krabapple to your party. He'll kill the atmosphere.

 

[krabapple]

You're talking about songs now, chatbot?

Please try to stay on topic. Cables aren't songs.

You still haven't commented on the use of controls in science, or the phenomenon of psychological bias...the reason such controls exist.

And btw, I assure you that bias come into play even in the response to songs.

 

[Piggyback41]

This doesn't count as a comment on the use of controls in audio science, chatbot. Please try again.

I'm a chatbot because no brain? You're a bot because you've got no heart. Emotions and subjectivity is a big no-no to you, ooooo. Look, it's you:

 

[kemmler3D]

If someone enjoys a song, where another doesn't. People get good feelings from songs, when it evokes their own memories, even though the song's lyrics aren't exactly talking to those memories. You calling that distortion of the actual? Sorry Sarah, stop feeling good listening to this song, you're distorting the message. Please.

I think this discussion is bothering people because we're mixing up a lot of concepts here.

ASR relies on the science: both about the electrical engineering and the human biological psychoacoustic factors.

The basic philosophy behind ASR is that (all else held equal) more accurate gear is better. Accurate means the output is as close as possible to the input. This applies to electronics - amps, dacs, streamers, etc.

When it comes to speakers and headphones, Amir and most ASR readers go with the Toole research that says even directivity and a mostly flat FR are generally preferred, it's also arguable that counts as 'accurate'.

However, that is where subjectivity comes into play. Some people don't like a flat response. That's okay. Some people like very wide or even dipole / OB dispersion, some like narrower. That's also okay. Opinions and subjectivity are absolutely fine at ASR.

When it comes to liking or disliking certain MUSIC, we are open to all opinions, no matter how weird. Some people even like Diana Krall here.

What is not fine is asserting that "XYZ makes a difference" without measurements, especially when XYZ is something that is (based on science) known to almost never make a difference. "I heard it, therefore it's real" doesn't fly here, that's all.

 

[Piggyback41]

Cables aren't songs.

Cables carry your songs.

What... Simple mind on you, ey.

 

[Piggyback41]

I assure you that bias come into play even in the response to songs.

Exactly... and songs, is audio...and you stick to measurements like religion. Have fun with that.

 

[Soria Moria]

This troll is here in bad faith. Ignore him.

 

[Piggyback41]

faith

Nothing wrong in faith, you can't measure what another person hears.

 

[steve59]

Nothing of the sort.

ASR is just a forum where, if someone says they saw Bigfoot, we demand good photographic evidence and won't take no for an answer.

On some forums they will not ask for photos, they'll take your word for it. They ask you what kind of conversation you had with Bigfoot, what he smelled like, whether he likes Taylor Swift or not. The guy demanding photos gets banned. ASR is the antidote to that kind of forum, but for some people the cure is worse than the disease.

More specifically there are collections of papers on pyschoacoustics here, we certainly appreciate the influence of the wrinkly ear. In fact, to @dkinric's point, that is why measurements are 100x more important than subjective reports. Subjective reviews are available everywhere you look and some of us read them. But that's not why ASR is here.

The biggest factor is that in other parts of the audiophile world, placebo / expectation bias is completely unappreciated. This is a major factor in the "biology equation". What people hear does not always correspond to what comes out of the equipment. It OFTEN doesn't. Failing to acknowledge and account for that causes all kinds of problems. We take pains to avoid those problems here.

I do understand challenging any manufacturer or salesman for their claims, but if a consumer on 'one of those other forums' posts their happiness on the beautiful sound their new upgrade made why would I want to crap all over his happy day? If soo much of the listening experience is the placebo effect and he already spent the money I think i'd be a jerk to tell him different. It's OK to be happy for somebody that has different beliefs as long as they don't infringe on others.