Measuring room frequency response with different DAC's

[Egoist]

?????????

Or maybe you listen directly to your DAC? I have to put it through my speakers and room first!

PS. Difficult to use sarcasm in forums

 

[Blumlein 88]

Or maybe you listen directly to your DAC? I have to put it through my speakers and room first!

PS. Difficult to use sarcasm in forums

Which has nothing to do with it. What goes in determines what comes out. It would be fine to measure what comes out, but you can measure more precisely what goes in. You can do it either way. You are wasting your time if you do. But rather than conjecture do it. I've done it. You can do if it that is the only way you will believe it.

 

[Egoist]

Which has nothing to do with it. What goes in determines what comes out. It would be fine to measure what comes out, but you can measure more precisely what goes in. You can do it either way. You are wasting your time if you do. But rather than conjecture do it. I've done it. You can do if that is the only way you will believe it.

I don't want to do it. That's why I was asking. If I wanted to do it I would simply do it (I do have the equipment and software and have measured my room before to create Convolution filters in Roon to improve my room response).

 

[Jimbob54]

I don't want to do it. That's why I was asking. If I wanted to do it I would simply do it (I do have the equipment and software and have measured my room before to create Convolution filters in Roon to improve my room response).

So to answer your initial post, isn't the obvious pair of answers "no" and "no"?

Thread closed?

 

[Egoist]

So to answer your initial post, isn't the obvious pair of answers "no" and "no"?

Thread closed?

When I see something that doesn't deserve my time and attention I just move on. Thanks for your valuable contribution though.

 

[Jimbob54]

When I see something that doesn't deserve my time and attention I just move on. Thanks for your valuable contribution though.

If it was worth your time and attention to ponder and post, and within your abilities to investigate, why aren't you doing it?

I'm sure you have at least 2 devices with DACs in that you can test.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Or maybe you listen directly to your DAC? I have to put it through my speakers and room first!

PS. Difficult to use sarcasm in forums

Perhaps the gist of my post was not evident.

If you measure a low-level electronic signal, the level of discrimination makes characteristics obvious, like the apple in the oats bin. But after both the oats and the apple have gone through the horse (the speaker), the desired level of discrimination no longer exists. Therefore, as others have said, if you wish to achieve meaningful results, measure before the horse (the speaker), not after it, or your results will be meaningless.

I would like to point out that your original post was about measuring differences in DACs, not speakers.

Jim

 

[Egoist]

If it was worth your time and attention to ponder and post, and within your abilities to investigate, why aren't you doing it?

I'm sure you have at least 2 devices with DACs in that you can test.

Thanks for your interest in my personal life. I am away from home for a long period. I normally only have one single DAC at home (not counting with my TV and so on). I have other DACs with me right now but don't have the microphone. Thread closed?

 

[Deleted member 21219]

PS. Difficult to use sarcasm in forums

Oh, I think you're doing OK.

Jim

 

[Egoist]

Perhaps the gist of my post was not evident.

If you measure a low-level electronic signal, the level of discrimination makes characteristics obvious, like the apple in the oats bin. But after both the oats and the apple have gone through the horse (the speaker), the desired level of discrimination no longer exists. Therefore, as others have said, if you wish to achieve meaningful results, measure before the horse (the speaker), not after it, or your results will be meaningless.

I would like to point out that your original post was about measuring differences in DACs, not speakers.

Jim

Yes. The question was if it was meaningful to do it after speakers. If we get a equal FR from two different DACs from a room measurement I guess it proves that no DAC has stronger bass or pronounced mids than other. I think it would be valuable to show it, not only theoretically explain it.

 

[Jimbob54]

Thanks for your interest in my personal life. I am away from home for a long period. I normally only have one single DAC at home (not counting with my TV and so on). I have other DACs with me right now but don't have the microphone. Thread closed?

You have more DACs on your travels than at home? Now I actually am interested in your personal life!

“Thread closed?“

Please do.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yes. The question was if it was meaningful to do it after speakers. If we get a equal FR from two different DACs from a room measurement I guess it proves that no DAC has stronger bass or pronounced mids than other. I think it would be valuable to show it, not only theoretically explain it.

Would measurements of a couple or three DACs convince you or are you requiring it be done with speakers?

 

[Egoist]

Would measurements of a couple or three DACs convince you or are you requiring it be done with speakers?

If you measure it on the DAC some people will say: but did you listen to it? If you measure room frequency response you are measuring what you are hearing. No one listen to DACs. I do understand the logic that if the FR of all DACs is the same it can't have an influence of a room frequency response but not all will have the same opinion. Now I think it's impossible to anyone deny that two different DACs that have the same exact measured room frequency response can have different audible bass/mid/treble response.

 

[Egoist]

You have more DACs on your travels than at home? Now I actually am interested in your personal life!

“Thread closed?“

Please do.

Man, you have to go out some more! Try to spend 11 months away from home per year and see where you'll need more your DACs..

 

[Daverz]

Yes. The question was if it was meaningful to do it after speakers.

The answer has already been given: no. A microphone is entirely the wrong tool for the job even before one considers things like comb filtering, ambient noise, variations in the speaker output as the tweeter heats up, etc.

 

[Egoist]

The answer has already been given: no. A microphone is entirely the wrong tool for the job even before one considers things like comb filtering, ambient noise, variations in the speaker output as the tweeter heats up, etc.

That I can tell you that doesn't have a significant effect. You do a room measurement in about 15 seconds. I've done several consecutive measurements before and got exactly the same response. Very rarely I had some variations but in the lowest frequencies. I think the most difficult thing to do with different DACs is to perfectly level match them.

 

[Daverz]

That I can tell you that doesn't have a significant effect. You do a room measurement in about 15 seconds. I've done several consecutive measurements before and got exactly the same response. Very rarely I had some variations but in the lowest frequencies. I think the most difficult thing to do with different DACs is to perfectly level match them.

What scale are you using? At the low frequency and amplitude precision of a 15 second frequency sweep of course the measurements look the same.

 

[JustJones]

think the most difficult thing to do with different DACs is to perfectly level match them.

You set the level in REW. We're talking sine sweeps right?

 

[Deleted member 21219]

No. I was just thinking that are several reviewers that say that one DAC has stronger bass and other more pronounced mids and that a room measurement should be the objective way to desmistify that (or to confirm it! )

I think I see the source of your problem.

1) Any reviewer that says a competently designed DAC has stronger bass or more pronounced mids is a scammer. Somewhere out there, there might be a DAC that is manufactured with a deliberately affected output stage to sound "different". I emphasize the word might because I'm not sure that such a design still exists. I also question to what degree someone would need to screw up the output stage of the DAC before the difference is actually audible.

2) If ... and I also emphasize if ... such a DAC exists, I would question whether room measurements would even show the difference. The room contributes so much garbage that it would be analogous to trying to find a gum wrapper in a tornado. I can't conceive that there is any efficacy compared to low-level measurements. That's what everyone here has been trying to tell you.

3) Stop listening to "reviewers". Spend some time with these videos:

Master List of Instructional Teaching Video presentations (How to read and interpret/understand all the Graphs and Charts!

Collection of Amir’s instructional Videos for reference, refresher and new members: (“Behind the Curtain @ ASR University”) Welcome New and returning Members of ASR. Our Host Amir has put together a collection of comprehensive instructional videos that might help new and returning Members...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Jim

 

[Egoist]

You set the level in REW. We're talking sine sweeps right?

Right, but it's difficult to set the level exactly the same. Normally I do it playing Pink Noise in order to get something around 75 to 76 dB. If one DAC is at 75 and other at 75.5 dB I guess that it's already a somewhat visible difference (altough it would be across all the frequencies).