Measuring room frequency response with different DAC's

[Egoist]

Does it makes any sense to measure the room frequency response with different DACs? Should this be a additional parameter to evaluate a DAC performance?

 

[staticV3]

Adding the room to your signal chain does not tell you anything about a DAC that you couldn't have already measured without it.
It just makes measuring frequency response more complicated.

 

[Egoist]

I'm guessing that if all the rest remains the same if we get a different response it should be from the DAC, right? Of course multiple measurements should be made for each DAC.

 

[Jimbob54]

Wouldn't the variability of in room measurements dwarf the differences between 2 non broken dacs?

And if one is broken, the existing measurements should have picked that up?

 

[Egoist]

Wouldn't the variability of in room measurements dwarf the differences between 2 non broken dacs?

And if one is broken, the existing measurements should have picked that up?

I guess that the best way of knowing if it would or not is doing the test. I'm guessing that many people have done that before. Probably you are right but I wouldn't bet all my money in it without measuring it first.

 

[Dimitri]

Does it makes any sense to measure the room frequency response with different DACs? Should this be a additional parameter to evaluate a DAC performance?

The direct answer to your questions is no and no.
I hope you are not thinking along the lines that one DAC will be more "compatible", "better paired", or "synergistic" with the room than another DAC. Or worse I hope someone else doesn't have you thinking along similar lines.

 

[Egoist]

The direct answer to your questions is no and no.
I hope you are not thinking along the lines that one DAC will be more "compatible", "better paired", or "synergistic" with the room than another DAC. Or worse I hope someone else doesn't have you thinking along similar lines.

No. I was just thinking that are several reviewers that say that one DAC has stronger bass and other more pronounced mids and that a room measurement should be the objective way to desmistify that (or to confirm it! )

 

[BDWoody]

No. I was just thinking that are several reviewers that say that one DAC has stronger bass and other more pronounced mids and that a room measurement should be the objective way to desmistify that (or to confirm it! )

It makes no sense. A DAC doesn't interact with the room at all.

What they need to do is perform a controlled test to demonstrate they can hear a difference.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Real simple. If you change the input to the speaker, it will change the output. So if a DAC really has more mids, stronger bass etc. the input to the speaker changed. You can measure the input to the speaker quite simply. One step back if you change the input to an amp, the output will change. So for the same amp on the same speaker to sound different the input to the amp must have changed. You can measure the output of the DAC which is the input to the amp much more precisely. If that shows no difference, then everything else will be no different. If you still hear differences, then you either didn't match levels or they are not real.

 

[Jimbob54]

I guess that the best way of knowing if it would or not is doing the test. I'm guessing that many people have done that before. Probably you are right but I wouldn't bet all my money in it without measuring it first.

Hop to it then

 

[Egoist]

Real simple. If you change the input to the speaker, it will change the output. So if a DAC really has more mids, stronger bass etc. the input to the speaker changed. You can measure the input to the speaker quite simply. One step back if you change the input to an amp, the output will change. So for the same amp on the same speaker to sound different the input to the amp must have changed. You can measure the output of the DAC which is the input to the amp much more precisely. If that shows no difference, then everything else will be no different. If you still hear differences, then you either didn't match levels or they are not real.

Sorry about my ignorance, but a room frequency response graph is something I understand easily regarding bass, mids and treble response. I am unfortunately unable to understand the same regarding any other measurement that is usually done to DACs - should I look into multitones (I'm afraid I cannot see anything else in that graph except distortion and noise levels)

 

[Egoist]

Hop to it then

I'm very limited regarding the DACs I have at my disposal but maybe I will when I can. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[Dimitri]

several reviewers that say that one DAC has

Glad I called and and warned you ahead of time

The frequency response of DACs goes something like this __________________________________________ give or take some miniscule inaudible flactuations.

Which DACs do you have available? Have you searched to see if they have been reviewed here ?

 

[staticV3]

Sorry about my ignorance, but a room frequency response graph is something I understand easily regarding bass, mids and treble response. I am unfortunately unable to understand the same regarding any other measurement that is usually done to DACs - should I look into multitones (I'm afraid I cannot see anything else in that graph except distortion and noise levels)

The peaks of the multitone signal reflect the DAC's frequency response:


Amir stopped measuring the regular frequency response of DACs, since they're basically always ruler flat.

 

[DVDdoug]

Sorry about my ignorance, but a room frequency response graph is something I understand easily regarding bass, mids and treble response.

All properly functioning DACs have flat frequency response over the audio range. There MIGHT be some high-frequency roll-off but you are unlikely to hear it, especially with music where slightly-lower frequencies tend to drown-out the highest frequencies.

But when you measure with a mic in a room, very-small microphone movement or difference in placement can make big at high frequencies where the reflected waves combine to cancel or sum-up depending on your position. You don't tend to notice that too much with music, but if you generate a 5-10kHz constant tone with Audacity you'll hear it vary a lot as you move your head a little. (Be careful if you experiment with high-frequency test-tones... Keep the volume down... You can burn-out tweeters with tones that don't sound that loud, or a frequencies you can't hear at all.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Sorry about my ignorance, but a room frequency response graph is something I understand easily regarding bass, mids and treble response. I am unfortunately unable to understand the same regarding any other measurement that is usually done to DACs - should I look into multitones (I'm afraid I cannot see anything else in that graph except distortion and noise levels)

Well I suppose I had not paid attention to how basic FR isn't measured by anyone in reviews anymore. Which should tell you something. You do see multi-tones and also those white noise graphs showing how the filter rolls off in the treble and ultrasonically. What it tells you is DACs are so flat unless broken there is nothing to see. You will have some very minor ripples in response or droops in response with different filters. Pretty much 5 khz and below is just dead flat. Those effects above 5 khz are usually very small. Nothing that will change the mids or the bass.

So yes you could measure with microphone using REW and sweeps or stepped sines. It will be a bit imprecise because speakers in a room aren't flat, but for comparisons it would be alright. If you have a recording interface which has an ADC you could measure them yourself using Pkanes Multitone (which does almost a complete suite of measurements not just multitones) or using REW.

As someone who has done this for quite a few things I can save you totally wasting your time. You won't find anything there which explains what these reviewers using sighted uncontrolled listening methodology are describing. They aren't there. Definitively they ARE NOT THERE. They are not hearing differences coming from the DACs.

 

[voodooless]

Sorry about my ignorance, but a room frequency response graph is something I understand easily regarding bass, mids and treble response. I am unfortunately unable to understand the same regarding any other measurement that is usually done to DACs - should I look into multitones (I'm afraid I cannot see anything else in that graph except distortion and noise levels)

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Testing a DAC electronically is like trying to find an apple in an oats bin before you feed it to a horse. No problem.

Trying to test a DAC by means of frequency graphs of the resultant speaker response is like trying to find the apple after it has come out the other end of the horse.

Jim

 

[Egoist]

Testing a DAC electronically is like trying to find an apple in an oats bin before you feed it to a horse. No problem.

Trying to test a DAC by means of frequency graphs of the resultant speaker response is like trying to find the apple after it has come out the other end of the horse.

Jim

Well, that's what we eat when we listen to music!

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Well, that's what we eat when we listen to music!

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