well he used to design drivers for B&W so why he would stop is beyond me.. he designed them mike. he is not your garden variety guy. i can ask him i guess? whats the question as you seem to have a different definition to the word design than me.
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Measuring for tonal characteristics
- Thread starter Mivera
- Start date
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/vivid_audio_g1giya_loudspeaker/#HoBzgFwPSvsVraO1.97
Learn from the past, set vivid goals for the future
Vivid Audio is not a familiar name to many audiophiles, but the company has its roots in one of the most iconic audio designs of all times, the B&W Nautilus. Among Vivid's owners are Robert Trunz, erstwhile co-owner of Bowers & Wilkins, and Laurence Dickie, who used to design B&W's drivers at their R&D facility in Steyning, England.
Trunz suggested that they bring in Dickie to design drivers rather than rely on OEM designs
less of a mistrusting pain in the arse than you you old buggerAhh I guess you're right. That was part of his jobHow do you find the upper mid bass on the G3?
the upper mid is neutral in my set up, to my ears. the only parts of the sound that's a little poetic imo is bass richness but and its a big but this richness is true to live amplified gigs that i go to. the drivers just need to have the right amp to control them imo.
the upper mid can depend on the distance you have your speakers set apart though, i have a wide set up as i listen down the long end of the room(wrong end strictly speaking but it works best in my house) . vivid speakers like distance between them imo, so i sit say 2.4 meters away but the speakers are 3 meters + apart . normally as you know you would setup 80% of the distance from ear to tweeter for the distance between the two loudspeakers. but that's congested for me, and the bass response is better closer to the corners( but not in the corners lol) .
so its possible the upper mid is thicker (richer) but the separation allows this to appear natural.. certainly not 'metallic' or thin. johnny cash sound nice, male vocal sound really good but not 'too good' if you get me?. real TBH. its nice to that all of that range seems to come from the mid driver and not the bass unit as can sometimes happen. so they do really appear linear.
dic designed everything on that speaker pretty much. he is a fascinating guy totally unassuming but frighteningly educated and knowledgeable. he can explain the engineering and design of every thing on his speaker, its all deliberate. right down to the magnets..
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OP
Mivera
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #66
less of a mistrusting pain in the arse than you you old bugger
the upper mid is neutral in my set up, to my ears. the only parts of the sound that's a little poetic imo is bass richness but and its a big but this richness is true to live amplified gigs that i go to. the drivers just need to have the right amp to control them imo.
the upper mid can depend on the distance you have your speakers set apart though, i have a wide set up as i listen down the long end of the room(wrong end strictly speaking but it works best in my house) . vivid speakers like distance between them imo, so i sit say 2.4 meters away but the speakers are 3 meters + apart . normally as you know you would setup 80% of the distance from ear to tweeter for the distance between the two loudspeakers. but that's congested for me, and the bass response is better closer to the corners( but not in the corners lol) .
so its possible the upper mid is thicker (richer) but the separation allows this to appear natural.. certainly not 'metallic' or thin. johnny cash sound nice, male vocal sound really good but not 'too good' if you get me?. real TBH. its nice to that all of that range seems to come from the mid driver and not the bass unit as can sometimes happen. so they do really appear linear.
The only thing I found a bit odd was how high the side firing woofers ran up to. So at the listening position, you are listening to a lot of reflected sound off the side walls.
they have very very tight bass, and very well timed bass imo. the time factor being important but this is room dependent at these frequencies..
i quizzed him about that too though as i had been advised this could be a problem... its not. though i can't explain why it works so well, when like you say maybe it could very well not.
i will get the mic out at some point then we can see WTF is going on down there, i might be delouded.
OP
Mivera
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #68
I figured it must be decent based on the feedback. But you would think it would make the design a bit more room dependant. Dual 5.5" drivers built like them should be super fast thats for sure. I love dual 5's for mid bass. In this design the upper mid runs full range with nothing but a piece of Neotech cable in the signal path. The lower mid runs from 300hz down and only has a single Mundorf Zero ohm coil in the signal path. They have such low DCR it's almost like there's nothing there. This compensates for baffle step losses (Sound that gets lost to the rear of the speaker) So at listening position there's no hole in the mid bass. This is one of the drawbacks of a skinny baffle, but is a non issue when you use an additional driver to compensate. So I have most of the positive attributes of going active with this setup, without having to go active. But it's not easy finding a mid bass like this that can blend with the tweeter so seamlessly without any crossover components. It was actually by accident that I discovered how well this worked. I popped the mid woofers in a old bookshelf speaker cabinet I had just to burn them in with no tweeter. I left them playing around the clock for a few days and noticed that they actually sounded really good even without a tweeter. So then I built a crossover for my Raven ribbon tweeter an sat it on top of the cabinet. It sounded unreal. I matched the levels up with a resistor and they measured pretty much ruler flat and sounded exceptional. So this is what I went with, only added the 2nd woofer for the baffle step compensation. I talked to the designer of this tweeter about this and he said the midbasses I have are the ones he wanted to use in this speaker:
http://www.dagogo.com/raven-design-studio-ebb-floorstanding-speaker-review
Because he did the same thing before with the same drivers and he said it was the closest thing he heard to a point source in his life. This is what inspired the Raven EBB. Only he used a slightly different driver with a smaller magnet because he simply didn't have any more of the ones I have, and they are no longer produced. But he used his latest tweeter design in that speaker.
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interesting, making some changes and leaving things playing while doing other things in other rooms is a good way to detect worthwhile musical changes that will translate well going forward with more focused listen that as we know is often compromised by our conscious minds. you cant fool the sub conscious in that way and by doing other things you conscious mind is not engaged. you just suddenly become informed by a sound that is better... i would test everything in this way.
AJ Soundfield
Major Contributor
Actually you did get the answer
The book cover doesn't tell the story. But it most certainly tells something, or several.
cheers,
AJ
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As far as I am aware tone and timbre are a mixture of the various frequencies, I would imagine that the material of the cone is uniportamt if properly designed and used within its design parameters , come break up would add its own particular colouration.
Intersting subject though, AJ?
Keith.
Intersting subject though, AJ?
Keith.
AJ Soundfield
Major Contributor
You would imagine incorrectly.
Mike needs to put away the audio comic books and science fiction and join the AES where he can read some non-fiction, like this.
Yes, within a certain paradigm, it would be difficult to pick speakers (blind) based solely on cone material. However, just look at the example he presented, a softer/lossy material (paper) vs stiffer (Alu), essentially hooked to the same motor. Below 500hz, in a system, in a room, they might be difficult to tell apart (unless you stare at them). Above, you can clearly see the resonances/breakup modes in the impedance/FR and also the different off axis behavior due to the cone stiffness. Crossed at 2.4k(!!), I can assure you there will be audible differences!
Quite so. Gotta run.
cheers,
AJ
amirswallowsmen
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Hi, I was recently searching the web for Arab men who like little boys and I found some guy named Amir prominently featured in Google's search results. Is this where I go to connect with him? Man, what a stupid URL. Anyone who knows anything about marketing and publicity would know that Audio Science Review is an overly complicated web address. Why not do something cool and use an abbreviation like ASR? The current name sounds like something only a washed up hack who used to work on ****** A/V software for Microsoft could think of. This site sucks already and I still haven't found this alleged Amir guy. Is he in the broom closet with a bunch of children? Ugh how frustrating!
AJ Soundfield
Major Contributor
Steve, how did that FBI thing work out for you?
dam it i got all confused by this talk of timber and the finishes mike likes on his builds and have been looking in the wrong place for information i think..
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/
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