measuring correctly and interpreting the results (some questions...)

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

I think your ultimate solution will be to use your minidsp+mso first and then run Audyssey.

 

[slacki]

All right, then i'll take a look at MSO

 

[ernestcarl]

you mean from ~22 up to ~72? So i need to find a better spot for my subs, yay...

It seems like wasted potential leaving it as it is. The extension is definitely there but the SPL is lacking. The may be legitimate reasons for cutting the bass early at maybe 20 or 30Hz when excessive ringing becomes a problem. You’re not at that point so an EQ boost or some re-positioning of the subs and main listening seat around the room should be explored.

*Just saw your second measurement with the EQ. Yes, that ringing at 20Hz may present itself as something that is excessive with particular tracks. I have something similar and have applied a cut to reduce it. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

[slacki]

i measured now 2 seat positions (couch + main), i use mostly main but sometimes when my back hurts or somebody comes over couch is used.
the measurement look so nasty and bad that i am wondering if i can continue with that with MSO now or should i first do something else to improve the situation.
I tried to get a better location with REWs room simulator, but i was not able to find a "good" location
Any advice?

Here are the subs red 1+2 (both are Arendal S1) positioned:

Here is the Arendal Sub2 (red 3) positioned:

edit:
oh wow, just for fun i created a mso project and let it run...

tbh i dont trust that until i measured and verified it with REW, it looks way too good there are some dips, especiallty that at about 125hz on main position, but thats fine i guess at the moment, maybe i can fix that later with some more skills in using mso and minidsp.
i will continue this thread with my stuff and outcomings, hope thats ok. maybe someone can benefit from that.
Wondering if i should not start at 15hz-200hz but from 10hz-200hz

 

[slacki]

so i used now REW, minidsp and MSO, and this is the result, and it does not look good tbh

1) Audyssey for everything except the subwoofer
2) Audyssey fully turned on

Audyssey makes it even worse - this is the main seat position. 4 heavy bass nulls :X.
I used marantz<->hdmi<->laptop with REW and laptop<->umik1

 

[peng]

so i used now REW, minidsp and MSO, and this is the result, and it does not look good tbh

View attachment 264249
1) Audyssey for everything except the subwoofer
2) Audyssey fully turned on

Audyssey makes it even worse - this is the main seat position. 4 heavy bass nulls :X.
I used marantz<->hdmi<->laptop with REW and laptop<->umik1

How about just Audyssey, no minidsp/mso? Would like to see it in direct mode too, ie. no RC/EQ.

Here are mine, the tweaked one is not the best I have achieved, but close enough. That's for mmp, other positions not as good but decent. If I were to try MSO/minidsp it would be for fun only, I just can't see how it would benefit further in terms of audibly better sound quality. I can, and have, live with just running Audyssey and use it as is, without any tweaking and prefer it On vs Off.

Audyssey Off:

Audyssey, as found results without any tweaking:

Audyssey, tweaked with the Editor App and Ratbuddyssey:

 

[slacki]

wow... i would love to have that curve... not sure if this is possible in my room. i somehow have the feeling i need to add some absorbers/diffusors etc.
What did you exactly do in the editor app? i will have a look at ratbuddyssey the next days...

 

[peng]

wow... i would love to have that curve... not sure if this is possible in my room. i somehow have the feeling i need to add some absorbers/diffusors etc.
What did you exactly do in the editor app? i will have a look at ratbuddyssey the next days...

I do use a slightly tilted target curve, after getting it flat first. I posted the steps I used the app and Rat on Audioholics, will post a link later.

My room isn't that good, you can see that in the curve for Audyssey off.

 

[slacki]

i made now some measurements... interesting.

1) without Audyssey with DSP
2) without Audyssey without DSP
3) only Audyssey, full with standard settings

Guess i wasted time and money for an UMIK, the DSP and MSO :X

 

[peng]

wow... i would love to have that curve... not sure if this is possible in my room. i somehow have the feeling i need to add some absorbers/diffusors etc.
What did you exactly do in the editor app? i will have a look at ratbuddyssey the next days...

If you are going to try Ratbuddyssey, take a look of my post in Audioholics, but note that it was in my early days playing around with it. While I managed to achieve less than +/- 1 dB (1/12 smoothing) that is less than 2 dB peak to peak within 20 to 150 Hz, a bit more to 300 Hz, I later realized that I wasted a lot of time but I eventually try only 5 to 15 anchor points and still managed to get within +/- 2 dB, or 4 to 5 dB peak to peak in the low range. I actually did the front left and right independently, Mult EQ X cannot do that (yet,.. and I think Audyssey recommend doing the edit on per speaker pairs basis only) but the Editor with Rat can do them (per channel) independently.

Either way it sounded the same to me, there's no audible advantage between a near straight line +/- 1 dB whatsoever. minidsp+MSO may get flatter/smoother results but I can't hear the difference anyway especially in the deep bass range, if you can, go for it, no harm trying.

The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips)

Did you try the procedure I posted? You should be able to flatten the curve within an hour. You should also aim for 75 dB instead of 85 because if that huge dip. I am sure the mini cannot do better than the app if you use Ratbuddyssey. Big thread, which post? I read everything in this...

forums.audioholics.com

That's just focussing on the low range, up to may be 300 Hz, if you are interested to go all the way, say full range (I wouldn't bother, just way too much work), take a read of Jon AA's:

The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips)

Sorry if it came across as disagreeing. I don't think we are :) I just had a couple of points to add which you actually do already touch on... 1-Take in room measurements before and after audyssey. Make sure to either average several measurements in a similiar configuaration as your audyssey...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[peng]

i made now some measurements... interesting.

View attachment 264753

1) without Audyssey with DSP
2) without Audyssey without DSP
3) only Audyssey, full with standard settings

Guess i wasted time and money for an UMIK, the DSP and MSO :X

Excellent! So what's wrong the first time, or what's right the last time?

 

[slacki]

Excellent! So what's wrong the first time, or what's right the last time?

I thought the curve was bad. It felt (in the last time) like all bass has been killed by Audyssey. That why i thought i need to go with DSP/MSO.
Unfortunately i am very busy atm, i might test bass this evening. My neighbors will be happy
But it is still miles away from your curve. Not sure if i can smoothen that so much with the App and Ratbudyssey. Can you tell me what you changed in the App? I have the android App.

 

[peng]

I thought the curve was bad. It felt (in the last time) like all bass has been killed by Audyssey. That why i thought i need to go with DSP/MSO.
Unfortunately i am very busy atm, i might test bass this evening. My neighbors will be happy
But it is still miles away from your curve. Not sure if i can smoothen that so much with the App and Ratbudyssey. Can you tell me what you changed in the App? I have the android App.

I am very sure you can smooth it with Ratbuddyssey. You can try the steps I outlined in that link, post#144, but there is no need to use some many anchor points, try just 10 to 15 points and see what happens. You will find that by improving the mmp, it likely would improve the other mic positions too, at least that's what I found.

My point is, your green curve is really good as it is now. Yes you can say that it has about 14 dB peak to peak variance in the 20-250 Hz range but that's with no smoothing at all. Lots of time people would post their curves with 1/12 smoothing, if you do that you will likely see more like 10 dB peak to peak, i.e. +/- 5 dB. Based on that, using Ratbuddyssey with the App you should be able to get within +/- 2 to 3 dB. That dip to 79 dB at about 88 Hz could be a challenge but you probably can improve it by a couple dB and that should be good enough for all intense and purposes.

 

[peng]

Unfortunately i am very busy atm, i might test bass this evening. My neighbors will be happy

If you want to try a little more bass, just use the app to tilt the curve, or increase the sub trim level by 3 dB, it may upset the balance a little but that should be negligible.