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Measurements questions

Kal Rubinson

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I've wondered the same thing. Especially sad if they don't continue with speaker measurements. I suppose when JA's measurements of currently reviewed gear is out of the pipeline we'll find out.
At this time, JA is the Technical Editor and will continue with his role in testing/measurements.
 

Sal1950

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There's a horrible accepted norm in the hifi world that no one be too critical of one anothers products. It really is an industry where the people making the gear and the people reviewing the gear are a gang bound by vested interests and knee deep in protectionism. Meanwhile Joe public gets lead up the garden path. Everybody who works in audio knows this they just don't have the basic level of honesty to admit it.
You hit the nail on the head there Thomas! Something we've discussed and reflected on quite a bit over the last 3 years here. I was excited to learn that Amir and yourself were putting this thing together. As the work from Peter Azcel had diminished due to his age just about any voice of reason had dried up in audio reviewing. As had been mentioned already it's sites like this that may finally start to knock a hole in the wall that has been built between reality and the subjective highend audio world.

To the OP's original question, yes I do believe JA might color the wording in his summeries for various reasons, but there is also something to what others said about remembering the level of praise or lack of in relation to the quality of the measurement. I would give him the benifit of doubt in this case also remembering he wants to keep his job. More revealing though is the way the magazine will ignore JA's findings and demur to a reviewers subjective opinion in it's attitude towards a product.. Example, in the review of the Spec RPA-W7EX JA wrote this the below. Yet Stereophile went on to give this amp a Class B score in Recommended Components for some time. I don't have the current list to check if it still is. Click on the link and check the measurement, would you call this a Class B SS amp?
"KM very much liked the sound of the Spec RPA-W7EX. I, however, was disappointed by its measured performance—modern class-D amplifiers, especially those using one of the Hypex modules, measure very much better than this. And with its low input impedance, its dislike of load impedances below 4 ohms, and its high levels of radiated noise, this not an amplifier that can be universally recommended, I feel.—John Atkinson"
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content...er-amplifier-measurements#GMyf0ImL8J2Zip6E.99

I do hope JA continues his work at Stereophile for a long time and that they will find a someone with at least the same level of integrity to replace him after retirement.
 
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Xulonn

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Where a product fails or is faulty on the test bench and a replacement is required to finish the review, this needs to be stated.

Sometimes, the component doesn't get to the test bench. The below is from what started out as a review - until a smoking amp ended it - of a pair of super expensive Raven 300B monoblocks by Stereophile's Art Dudley in May, 2014. Indeed, Stereophile did not hide the problem, which according to the manufacurer's comment at the end of the review, turned out to be a "loose resistor lead". The review was then continued using the $7,300 Raven Spirit 300B stereo amplifier, and Dudley is quoted as saying "when I heard it through my system I cried a little" in spite of JA's finding that it measured absolutely miserably. If anything demonstrates the frequent dissonance between the subjective (sighted listening) and objective (measurment) components of Stereophile Magazine's reviews, this is one of the most ridiculous examples. LINK


Raven.jpg

Raven2.jpg


Amplifiers designed in the West and built in the East account for much of that bounty, so I was intrigued by the offer of a review sample of the opposite: a 300B amplifier designed in Korea and built in the archetypically American state of Texas. The [Raven] Spirit 300B Reference Stereo amplifier, designed by S.E. Han and built by Dave Thomson of Raven Audio, came my way in January, and has made an indelible impression.

But it didn't happen just like that.

This review began with a different Raven amp: the Spirit 300B Reference Monoblock—two of them in fact. They arrived in ostensibly fine shape, but when I installed them in my system, something happened that I had not, in 30 years of writing about hi-fi gear, experienced before: After powering them up and waiting about 20 seconds, during which I heard intermittent buzzes and hums from at least one channel, I first saw and then smelled acrid smoke rising from the amps. (The amps were both on the hardwood floor, quite close to each other, so I can't say for sure if the smoke was coming from both, though I believe that it was.) I quickly powered-down the Ravens and disconnected their AC cords, then rushed outside for fresh air.

A smoking amplifier is, it seems, an invitation to self-doubt—a feeling I dispatched with a few basic checks. Yes, the Spirits were indeed marked for 117 VAC operation. Yes, although neither amp was accompanied by an owner's manual—toward the end of the review period, I received, as a pdf, a manual for the Raven Spirit—I had correctly followed the tube-installation chart sent to me by Raven's publicist, in response to my request for same.

There followed, as one might expect, strings of e-mails between me, Raven Audio, their publicist, and editor John Atkinson. Stereophile's policy requires that a product review, once begun, be carried to its conclusion, come what may: In the event of product failure, the reviewer is directed to request another sample. I did so, and was informed that the most recent production run of monoblocks had been sold out—and that restocking would not be soon in coming. I was then offered the chance to review the stereo version of the very same amp. (I was also told that I would eventually receive a postmortem on the departed Spirits, so that I can report on the cause of death, footnote 2) Because I'd already invested some time and effort in this project, and because it had become part of our editorial planning for this issue, the sideways step to a different model was approved. And so . . .

Edit: The mono amp pic is likely the model Dudley started with, and the stereo amp pic is from the review.
 
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Sal1950

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If anything demonstrates the frequent dissonance between the subjective (sighted listening) and objective (measurment) components of Stereophile Magazine's reviews, this is one of the most ridiculous examples.
Yea but those were cheap $7,300 amps. Gotta give them a break if they let the smoke out now and then. LOL
Mikey Fremer just loved the sound of the $93,000 Ypsilon Hyperion monoblocks. Class A recommended.

"I have no reason to believe that this sample of the Ypsilon Hyperion was broken and my measurements are not out of line with its specifications. Given that, it is not an amplifier that I would recommend, especially given its price. While I have found that power amplifiers tend to sound different from one another, I feel they should be engineered to be as close to neutrally balanced as possible, and not designed to produce a "tailored" sound, as the Hyperion seems to be.—John Atkinson"
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content...er-amplifier-measurements#s3ZSAAk7buAS2BIY.99
 

restorer-john

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Stereophile did not hide the problem, which according to the manufacurer's comment at the end of the review, turned out to be a "loose resistor lead".

Stereophile often have written of shutdowns and failures and that is what I expect.

Unless the gear being tested is a prototype or not-for-sale test mule, failures on the bench are indicative of poor design or inadequate QC and should be communicated to the readership.

Personally, I regard any piece of amplification product that fails to meet its advertised specifications a failure. Not only a failure, but a falsely advertised failure. Go back to the lab, fix it, redesign it, or adjust the specifications to reflect real world performance.
 

Sal1950

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Stereophile often have written of shutdowns and failures and that is what I expect.
Kudo's for not covering it up.
This is so perfect an example of how the QC seems to get worse as the price goes up on so many audio products.
I know the old Murphy's Law thing but if you were a manufacturer of a piece of gear going out for review, wouldn't you give it a thrashing hard run before it went out???
 

Blumlein 88

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Sometimes, the component doesn't get to the test bench. The below is from what started out as a review - until a smoking amp ended it - of a pair of super expensive Raven 300B monoblocks by Stereophile's Art Dudley in May, 2014. Indeed, Stereophile did not hide the problem, which according to the manufacurer's comment at the end of the review, turned out to be a "loose resistor lead". The review was then continued using the $7,300 Raven Spirit 300B stereo amplifier, and Dudley is quoted as saying "when I heard it through my system I cried a little" in spite of JA's finding that it measured absolutely miserably. If anything demonstrates the frequent dissonance between the subjective (sighted listening) and objective (measurment) components of Stereophile Magazine's reviews, this is one of the most ridiculous examples. LINK


View attachment 28080
View attachment 28122



Edit: The mono amp pic is likely the model Dudley started with, and the stereo amp pic is from the review.

Oh please now. This amplifier has some character, some joie de vivre. It could be another super-model amplifier with a little skinny scrawny graph of distortion. But no, it has a meaty, life-like, delightfully curvacious quality to its distortion graphs. Something you can sink into and have a little guilty fun. It has its faults sure, but in life nothing is perfect. It also has unique intriguing pecadillos of performance. It will surprise with every experience you share with it rather than turn in a cookie cutter, up to the moment fashion statement of boredom. It is warm and beguiling in its full depth of being experienced.
 

Xulonn

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Unless the gear being tested is a prototype or not-for-sale test mule, failures on the bench are indicative of poor design or inadequate QC and should be communicated to the readership.
Apparently the top-of-the-line Raven amps are limited editions - built to order. The builder probably missed soldering something.
 

restorer-john

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but if you were a manufacturer of a piece of gear going out for review, wouldn't you give it a thrashing hard run before it went out?

You would think so.

Or at least confirm it can hit the specifications you tout on your website and advertisements, otherwise you may end up looking pretty silly.
 

Wombat

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You would think so.

Or at least confirm it can hit the specifications you tout on your website and advertisements, otherwise you may end up looking pretty silly.


The time spent on attention to detail is loss-making in the accountants world. ;)
 
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Alexanderc

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I have thoroughly enjoyed reading through this thread. I’m glad to know people here can sanely and objectively talk about an issue that has proven so divisive in other forums.
 
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