Measurements Paradigm Persona 5f vs Perlisten S7t

[DipoleMan]

Dear folks,


This is my first post on ASR (actually, my first post on the entire internet). Also, please excuse my English as it is not my native language. I will be using ChatGPT as a translator.


First, I want to thank the members of the forum for creating a community focused mainly on audio measurements and objective data, from which I’ve benefited over the past 4 years when choosing components for my system.


At the moment, I want to change my speakers, but I don’t have the opportunity to listen to the following models either in my room or at an audio store. I’m not looking for help deciding which speaker I should buy, but rather help in understanding, in this specific case, what the measurements are telling me.


For different reasons, I’m interested in the Paradigm Persona 5F and the Perlisten S7t, among others.


About the Paradigms, many people say they are too bright in the highs to the point of causing listening fatigue, and that the Perlistens are smoother to listen to. But looking at the Stereophile measurements of the Paradigm Persona 5F and the Perlisten S7t, they seem practically the same — both models show a treble boost. So, what am I missing in the measurements? What am I not interpreting correctly?

Paradigm Persona 5F loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Paradigm Persona 5F's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield responses. Paradigm specifies the Persona 5F's anechoic voltage sensitivity as...

www.stereophile.com

Perlisten S7t loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements The center of the Perlisten S7t's DPC high-frequency driver array is just 32" from the floor. While the distributor had placed the loudspeaker on a 3"-high dolly when he delivered it, I wasn't able to lift the speaker any higher for the measurements. (It weighs 122.5lb.)...

www.stereophile.com

Many thanks for the help,


Dave

 

[Matias]

Welcome to ASR. Both speakers are indeed somewhat boosted on the top end...
If you want a passive floorstanding speaker in the 20k usd ballpark, with exemplary tonal response, you can check the KEF Blade 2 Meta.

KEF Blade 2 Meta Speaker Review

KEF Blade 2 Meta Speaker

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Or alternatively, if you don't like the Blade looks, their Reference 5 Meta:

Reference 5 Meta

This is the official KEF international website where you can choose your region in order to explore more on our wireless speakers, hifi, headphones and more. Shop LSX & LS50 Wireless.

international.kef.com

Or for cheaper the Ascend ELX looks great too.

ELX TOWER PAIR

Introducing our new ELX Tower! In development for over a decade, our ELX Towers represent the current State-Of-The-Art of loudspeaker design. Every performance category has been fully optimized – from shockingly deep bass extension and punch, to incredible spaciousness and ideal tonal balance...

www.ascendacoustics.com

 

[Kal Rubinson]

JA points out "The center of the Perlisten S7t's DPC high-frequency driver array is just 32" from the floor," much lower than normal ear height. I was bothered by a perception that I was listening/looking down on the soundstage. Perhaps because I was off-axis (vertically) to the HF, it did not seem bright even though the vertical dispersion is even and balanced.

OTOH, the Paradigm tweeter is close to ear height and I needed to adjust toe-in to avoid being directly on-axis.

 

[DipoleMan]

Thank you all very much for your replies. Thanks to Matias for the speaker recommendation, and to Kalman Rubinson, because in his explanation I found the answer I was looking for. And one question, Kalman, if I may: could that brightness caused by the elevated treble in the Paradigms become annoying, or is it simply perceived as an emphasis in those frequencies? Thanks again.

 

[Matias]

Forgot to mention the Reference Meta white paper for details and measurements:

https://assets.kef.com/documents/reference/KEF_Blade_Ref_Meta_Tech_Paper.pdf

And on Spinorama.org.

Measurements for speaker KEF Reference 5 Meta

www.spinorama.org

 

[Ellebob]

As a generalization a boost in the high frequencies makes material sound more detailed, long listening sessions this can be fatiguing. A lot of other factors like setup, how much it is toed in, any room EQ, and lastly user preference and user hearing. While research has showed most prefer neutral sound, the research was done only with people that have good hearing. As we get older we often have decreased ability to hear high frequencies so a boost might be preferred for those individuals. Plus you can always EQ to taste but many don't want to be bothered more than a bass and treble knob. Both of the speakers you are consiering are great speakers as well as others that have been suggested.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

And one question, Kalman, if I may: could that brightness caused by the elevated treble in the Paradigms become annoying, or is it simply perceived as an emphasis in those frequencies?

Tough to answer with an absolute since they did impress in many ways but I did not consider keeping them in place of the Bowers & Wilkins 802 D3s that I had at that time. The B&Ws were eventually replaced briefly by Revel Ultima2 Studios and, ultimately, by KEF Blade2 Metas.

 

[kharan]

JA points out "The center of the Perlisten S7t's DPC high-frequency driver array is just 32" from the floor," much lower than normal ear height. I was bothered by a perception that I was listening/looking down on the soundstage. Perhaps because I was off-axis (vertically) to the HF, it did not seem bright even though the vertical dispersion is even and balanced.

OTOH, the Paradigm tweeter is close to ear height and I needed to adjust toe-in to avoid being directly on-axis.

Just get a stand for your floor standers.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

While research has showed most prefer neutral sound, the research was done only with people that have good hearing. As we get older we often have decreased ability to hear high frequencies so a boost might be preferred for those individuals.

This is accepted knowledge but my personal experience is that, as I age and lose bandwidth, I seem to be more intolerant of high frequency boost and/or brightness than ever.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Just get a stand for your floor standers.

Ha. Are you aware of the size and weight of those Perlistens?

 

[DipoleMan]

I currently own a pair of Sonus Faber Amati Tradition speakers. While I do like the factory treble boost they come with, what I don’t like is the ~6 dB peak that shows up between about 800 and 1200 Hz in the measurements I take at the listening position, as well as a muddy sound between 400 and 800 Hz.

The listening room is in an attic, and the speakers are placed under one of the sloped ceilings. Even though I’ve tried positioning the speakers against the flat wall, leaving the sloped walls to the sides, this peak still appears in the measurements, no matter where I place either the speakers or the listening position. In magazine measurements I haven’t seen this characteristic—could the room really alter the response to this extent?

I’ve tried installing panels in many spots, but since they absorb too much treble, the 1 kHz peak becomes even more noticeable. It’s a dedicated room, and my preference is to place panels on the wall behind the listening position, on the first ceiling reflection points, and in the four corners. I don’t like how panels sound on the side walls. The speakers are 170 cm from the side walls and 280 cm from the wall behind them.

I use Dirac Bass Control up to 1.5 kHz; on one hand the sound improves, but I perceive it as artificial. I also use four subwoofers to address the nulls at 40 Hz and 80 Hz from the main speakers. I’m sharing these details in case I’m going about this the wrong way, but at this point I don’t know what else to do with the room. That’s why I’ve been considering switching to speakers that are as transparent as possible, with controlled directivity, a flat response, and a cabinet free of resonances.

As I mentioned before, I don’t mind a slight treble boost. I’ve owned the LX521.4 and some DIY dipoles, but the result has been the same. (Maybe the problem is that some part of the room’s structure resonates and adds itself to the speaker’s response. If so, how could I identify it?)

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

 

[kharan]

Ha. Are you aware of the size and weight of those Perlistens?

Needing to place a stand under floor standers is already enough of a joke that nothing needs to be added.

Having said that, it's probably high enough if you're far enough, say 4 m.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Having said that, it's probably high enough if you're far enough, say 4 m.

That's what Perlisten asserts and it is probably so. OTOH, I don't listen blind, so seeing the position of the tweeter undoubtedly has an influence.

 

[MattHooper]

Thank you all very much for your replies. Thanks to Matias for the speaker recommendation, and to Kalman Rubinson, because in his explanation I found the answer I was looking for. And one question, Kalman, if I may: could that brightness caused by the elevated treble in the Paradigms become annoying, or is it simply perceived as an emphasis in those frequencies? Thanks again.

for what it’s worth:

I had an extensive audition of the Persona speakers, well set up in a good room, and over time I found the peak in the highs to be too fatiguing. Eventually, I wanted to turn them down and just stop listening. So I wrote them off my list.

I would think people’s experience may differ on this, but I would certainly put the Personas in the category of “ try before you buy” if possible, because they certainly do have a distinct high frequency emphasis.

On the other hand, if you can tame this with EQ, the speakers were otherwise quite impressive - very clear clean sound, they projected sonic images with good scale and heft (not miniaturized), and had nice control throughout the frequency spectrum. Good power.

 

[Blueprint]

Forgot to mention the Reference Meta white paper for details and measurements:

https://assets.kef.com/documents/reference/KEF_Blade_Ref_Meta_Tech_Paper.pdf

And on Spinorama.org.

Measurements for speaker KEF Reference 5 Meta

www.spinorama.org

And they are absolutely gorgeous, unlike the Blades which look like a Nickelodeon render of a pair of spaceships.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

And they are absolutely gorgeous, unlike the Blades which look like a Nickelodeon render of a pair of spaceships.

I find the Refence 5 clean but a bit hard-edged.
OTOH, my wife and I find the Blades to be refreshingly gradeful and are pleased to have incorporated 3 of them into our renovations.
"According to KEF, the Blade's sculptural form was inspired by Constantin Brâncuși's modernist masterpiece, Bird in Space."
De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

[Blueprint]

I find the Refence 5 clean but a bit hard-edged.
OTOH, my wife and I find the Blades to be refreshingly gradeful and are pleased to have incorporated 3 of them into our renovations.
"According to KEF, the Blade's sculptural form was inspired by Constantin Brâncuși's modernist masterpiece, Bird in Space."
De gustibus non est disputandum.

Many find them beautiful. And KEF are class leaders in design aesthetics, they clearly know what they’re doing. I can’t shake the cartoon-esque element to them, but I suspect if I heard a demo I’d quickly get over it.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I can’t shake the cartoon-esque element to them, but I suspect if I heard a demo I’d quickly get over it.

"Cartoon-esque" never occured to me but the Brancusi homage was immediately apparent. Whatever.

 

[DipoleMan]

Since you’re talking about the Blades, do you think it would be difficult to find the right position for this speaker in an attic with sloped ceilings, given that the bass drivers are on the sides? Or would it be just like placing a regular speaker?

 

[DipoleMan]

for what it’s worth:

I had an extensive audition of the Persona speakers, well set up in a good room, and over time I found the peak in the highs to be too fatiguing. Eventually, I wanted to turn them down and just stop listening. So I wrote them off my list.

I would think people’s experience may differ on this, but I would certainly put the Personas in the category of “ try before you buy” if possible, because they certainly do have a distinct high frequency emphasis.

On the other hand, if you can tame this with EQ, the speakers were otherwise quite impressive - very clear clean sound, they projected sonic images with good scale and heft (not miniaturized), and had nice control throughout the frequency spectrum. Good power.

Thanks for the information. Since I’m thinking about changing speakers, I wanted to try something fun and different.