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Measurements of RME ADI-2 DAC and Headphone Amp

LTig

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Disappointing indeed. You've got me thinking twice about this purchase now 'harsh & hard' are words that are extremely offputting.
You should not rely on other persons subjective opinions.
I'm very interested to hear how you progress given the many onboard settings available.
I'm just waiting for "it sounds much better after burn in of 3 weeks " ...
 

Nostro

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You should not rely on other persons subjective opinions.

I'm just waiting for "it sounds much better after burn in of 3 weeks " ...

Thanks LTig.....

Good call...I'm getting very carried away with this intended purchase & wanted to have this sorted after a weekend of reading & thinking. The more I read and so on the less enthusiastic or more confusion sets in. I need to get back to the positivity I had beforehand that led me to this dac/amp in the first instance.

Cheers.
 

Bliman

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Disappointing indeed. You've got me thinking twice about this purchase now 'harsh & hard' are words that are extremely offputting. I'm very interested to hear how you progress given the many onboard settings available.

1000 days can be a 'harsh' sounding album, but assume not so with your old rig. Wings for Mary pt 1. is brutal....I think the recording was very mediocre, not that I've listened to it in years!

Good luck. :)
I had set the new RME up today. And of course, I listened to it immediately.
So this is a very first impression. I heard immediately that the treble was much more out there and strong (also on other cd's).
It is difficult to explain but the layering seems also pretty thin (difficult to explain). I know that 10000 days is not a great recording and it was also apparent on the grace design but with the RME I couldn't listen to it. starting with Vicarious. I put the treble down by 6 dB and bass up with 6dB but I couldn't get it good. It was so harsh and also a bit of a mess to listen too.
I then listened to the Grace Design and it is much more coherent and less messy.
This is only after hearing the RME a couple of hours. So things can change.
What was also clear is that the RME is more detailed then the grace design. I could hear things that I never heard before.
Just so you know I am always someone that is very critical of purchases and fearful of buying the right stuff.
I hope I can change it with eq.
The coming days I will hear more and maybe things will change.
Also with headphones the difference is there and the Grace Design sounds better (but I haven't listened much).
And although I didn't do a blind test, I would be very surprised if I couldn't hear which is which.
I wish it was simple for me to do a blind test.
Hopefully it is just fear talking in my head that I made the wrong choice. But the Tool stuff was pretty scary.
 

JIW

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It is probably too early for that. Mind you, the latest software updates includes compatibility with third party programmable remotes (not sure of the details). Ask at the rme user forum.

From the RME forum (FW 30):
MC_RME said:
And here we go: RME's ADI-2 DAC enters remote paradise!

Users that own a freely programmable remote, either as part of a home automation system, or self-build with infrared transmitters, or a programmable remote from renowned manufacturer Logitech can now use their remote to control the ADI-2 DAC. RME released a document listing all the supported remote commands and codes:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/ad … mmands.zip

And Logitech added all these commands/codes to their data base for the RME ADI-2 DAC:

http://www.myharmony.com

Search for RME, ADI-2 DAC, in your Harmony software!


The new, extended remote support covers more than the original 11 buttons of RME's handy inclusion. Users now also have direct access to the 31 'remap' actions/commands, with no remapping necessary. The infrared code list also includes Bass +/-, Treble +/-, and Balance Left/Right control - yes, these functions can now also be remoted if you have a programmable one with enough buttons
wink.png


Furthermore, we found that programmable remotes often do not support a long press on the power button, which is necessary for the DAC. Not only that a short press interrupts the AutoDark mode, we also prevent an accidental switch-off this way, exactly as with the Standby button at the unit. Therefore RME added a specific power-off code that turns off the unit immediately, making it possible to use a third party remote also for switching the unit into standby.

RME's total remote approach allows to set Polarity, DAC filters, Dim, AutoDark, Crossfeed, Loudness, display control and many more features and functions, comfortably from the preferred listening position, or automated through custom remote solutions.

Latest FW (33)
 

Bliman

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You should not rely on other persons subjective opinions.

I'm just waiting for "it sounds much better after burn in of 3 weeks " ...
I don't believe in burn in.
And yes you must hear things for yourself. And yes my opinion can be wrong. Maybe I put the RME much louder then the Grace Design. But to me it was a eye opener.
Maybe I will plug both on the computer and then I can try to compare it with my headphones better.
 

Bliman

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I heard details I haven't heard before on the grace design. Maybe it is because the treble is stronger. I really don't know.
I am not a technical guy. And I am the first to admit that I could very much be wrong and a blind test could fool me.
I just wanted to share my opinion. It could very much be my fear is playing tricks with me (it has happened before, humans are such weird creatures).
I could give more impressions in the coming days if someone wants too. But know I am not a professional listener or someone that has much technical knowledge.
 

JIW

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I heard details I haven't heard before on the grace design. Maybe it is because the treble is stronger. I really don't know.
I am not a technical guy. And I am the first to admit that I could very much be wrong and a blind test could fool me.
I just wanted to share my opinion. It could very much be my fear is playing tricks with me (it has happened before, humans are such weird creatures).
I could give more impressions in the coming days if someone wants too. But know I am not a professional listener or someone that has much technical knowledge.

At 96 kHz, the Grace seems to roll off earlier than the RME's default filter (SD Sharp). At 44.1 kHz that should be even more pronounced.

Try setting the levels as similar as you can (optimally the same) and also try listening to some other music.
 

Bliman

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At 96 kHz, the Grace seems to roll off earlier than the RME's default filter (SD Sharp). At 44.1 kHz that should be even more pronounced.

Try setting the levels as similar as you can (optimally the same) and also try listening to some other music.
Thank you very much. Great comment. Maybe I should look at which filter the best one is for me. I don't have any knowledge of that. And yes the filter was on the default one. I have changed it to the short delay low dispersion now.
But thank you again for the great tip.
And again to be clear I haven't done a blind test or not even a comparison. It was from my recollection. Only the one with the headphones was both checked today.
RME has so much features. I don't want anyone to be discouraged by my findings. It could very well change. And it was only my first impression. And JIW made a great point.
 

VintageFlanker

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Disappointing indeed. You've got me thinking twice about this purchase now 'harsh & hard' are words that are extremely offputting.
I don't want anyone to be discouraged by my findings.
I'm sorry but this is not Head-Fi here (or whatever forum). Anyone can say anything about subjective listening, and this has no value since possible bias has not be removed. The ADI-2 DAC is highly transparent: if there is any harness, it comes from elsewhere (amp, speakers, file or recording...)
I didn't do a blind test but that wasn't necessary.
We saw that a tons of time. No, it is still necessary. Start by using the unit stock (no loudness, no EQ etc) and listen.
I put the bass up by 6 dB and treble down by 6 dB. But that didn't do anything.
Sounds like a very bad Idea. And strange it didn't do anything. I suggest you check the basic settings.;)
I'm getting very carried away with this intended purchase & wanted to have this sorted after a weekend of reading & thinking. The more I read and so on the less enthusiastic or more confusion sets in.
Stop reading irrelevant subjective opinions, then. Of course it is confusing because there is nothing technical behind it. One guy says it sounds great, another it sounds bad, and it never ends... That's why objective, measured performance exists.
 
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amirm

amirm

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I had set the new RME up today. And of course, I listened to it immediately.
What is the output of RME going to? An amp? Internal headphone amp? If external device, what did you set the RME level to?
 

LTig

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What is the output of RME going to? An amp? Internal headphone amp? If external device, what did you set the RME level to?
This is very important, good hint. The RME cam easily clip the input stage of typical consumer equipment. @Bliman should start with 4dBu, or set the volume to -20 dB.

However, this is not necessary when using the RME's headphone out to feed a headphone.
 

VintageFlanker

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This is very important, good hint. The RME cam easily clip the input stage of typical consumer equipment. @Bliman should start with 4dBu, or set the volume to -20 dB.
I'd say he should start with RME recommandations for Hi-fi usage: +7dBu at 0db, fixed. (1.73V). Or go by the 2V/4V standards, using +13dBu, -4,5db (2V/4.1V).
 

Veri

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I heard the new RME dac today and there is a big difference between my Grace Design M902 and the RME. I didn't do a blind test but that wasn't necessary.

Seriously, Bliman? Not a single detail about what you connected to (amp/speakers/headphones) or more importantly how you compared?? Very hard to take this kind statement seriously.
 
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Had many, many DAC’s over the years. The RME ADI-2 DAC is by far the best: Transparent, High quality, Excellent support, Feature rich aso. However it’s not for everyone. Mastering the user interface can at times be a bit frustrating. Once done it’s a highly rewarding piece of equipment!
 

strangeskies

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Disappointing indeed. You've got me thinking twice about this purchase now 'harsh & hard' are words that are extremely offputting.

Worry not, it's got

airy, spacious, crystalline highs

Chocolatey, buttery, present midrange

Controlled, tight, authoritative lows.

Edit to add: mids are also quite "lush" and lows "exciting".

If you like exciting chocolate, butter, crystals, this is your dac.
 
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strangeskies

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I could give more impressions in the coming days if someone wants too. But know I am not a professional listener or someone that has much technical knowledge.

I'd be interested in a qualitative assessment AFTER you take appropriate steps to ensure proper integration into your system. Namely:

I'd say he should start with RME recommandations for Hi-fi usage: +7dBu at 0db, fixed. (1.73V). Or go by the 2V/4V standards, using +13dBu, -4,5db (2V/4.1V).

If a superbly measuring and audibly transparent dac is surprisingly bad sounding...something is way off (defective unit, user error, etc).
 

BDWoody

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Thanks LTig.....

Good call...I'm getting very carried away with this intended purchase & wanted to have this sorted after a weekend of reading & thinking. The more I read and so on the less enthusiastic or more confusion sets in. I need to get back to the positivity I had beforehand that led me to this dac/amp in the first instance.

Cheers.

Exactly...

You can safely ignore those uncontrolled subjective anecdotes as being well intentioned, but not necessarily meaningful.

The bigger the differences described at this level of DAC, the more skeptical you can be. When the wife can hear the obvious difference from the kitchen, you know you can safely move on.

This leaves out the possibility that someone has a broken unit, but that's not what we're talking about...

Keep reading the science...no need to get stressed.
 

Bliman

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I'm sorry but this is not Head-Fi here (or whatever forum). Anyone can say anything about subjective listening, and this has no value since possible bias has not be removed. The ADI-2 DAC is highly transparent: if there is any harness, it comes from elsewhere (amp, speakers, file or recording...)
We saw that a tons of time. No, it is still necessary. Start by using the unit stock (no loudness, no EQ etc) and listen.

Sounds like a very bad Idea. And strange it didn't do anything. I suggest you check the basic settings.;)
Stop reading irrelevant subjective opinions, then. Of course it is confusing because there is nothing technical behind it. One guy says it sounds great, another it sounds bad, and it never ends... That's why objective, measured performance exists.
Sorry to give my subjective first impression. I often see the same subjective expression that isn't questioned and I thought I would give mine.
And I agree with you that a blind test is necessary. Although I heard details I never heard before.
 

Bliman

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What is the output of RME going to? An amp? Internal headphone amp? If external device, what did you set the RME level to?
My RME goes to a Lyngdorf sda 2175 power amplifier with XLR cables. The RME is connected by RCA to the NAD c542 cd player. And the power amplifier is connected to Dynaudio 52 SE speakers and a Q acoustic subwoofer.
The level of the RME is set to 5dBu (I think it is called that) and is standard on autolevel. The Lyngdorf does need 2 Volt. Maybe that is where the problem lies. But I don't think I can set the RME lower.
 
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