Measurements of Oppo BDP-105 Blu-ray Player

[LibranRabbit]

Forgot to mention earlier that I use pure silver balanced XLR stereo out and Optical from the unit with the same results that the modded 105D sounds better than the stock 205.

 

[zermak]

Is that why every digital unit is exactly the same, not.

If you are talking about digital signals yes they should be the same as intended (unless a product is defected; example with audio: a bitstream will always be the same or we would have troubles... nothing we have would work as expected considering we are in a digital word and it works becasue we have standards and knowledge of these things, it's not magic, well to me some part kinda is just because I don't understand it tho).If you are talking about the process of trasforming (key word) the digital signal to analog then the quality of the implementation makes the difference indeed.
But here we have a digital video stream with it's standard and implementation going through a path onto the TV (and that's were the kinda digital to analog changes will be, volts to activate or not the subpixels and so on).

 

[LibranRabbit]

I know what sounds good and what doesn’t, I have an immense love for music and have, at last count, over a couple of thousand cd's. Many imported high quality original pressings etc... I get many people knocking this mod, but without hearing it. This cannot be compared to other type of mods for these players. I have had people in the music industry, here in Adelaide, hear this and get completely blown away by its neutrality.

 

[Sal1950]

Forgot to mention earlier that I use pure silver balanced XLR stereo out and Optical from the unit with the same results that the modded 105D sounds better than the stock 205.

OOOOO Pure Silver wires... ROTFLMAO
What a waste of money

 

[LibranRabbit]

OOOOO Pure Silver wires... ROTFLMAO
What a waste of money

The wet string drys out too quickly.

 

[LibranRabbit]

OOOOO Pure Silver wires... ROTFLMAO
What a waste of money

The result is, one will find no difference in frequency response between pure copper and pure silver everything else being equal. Surprised?

We think that pretty much disproves the myth that silver alloy conductors are “brighter” or are “thinner on bass” relative to copper because of frequency response differences. The technology or science might not be good at measuring many aspects of sound but frequency response curves of both identical geometry conductors are pretty similar if not identical. Nevertheless, ignoring conductor geometry and other factors for now, there exists a distinct difference of sound when both type of conductors are conducting signals of music.

The main sonic characteristics of pure copper vs pure silver conductors can be summarized as follows:

While copper tends to sound warmer and has more body it is a bit slower and less harmonically rich, silver does exactly the opposite. Silver tends to sound livelier, while offering more clarity and harmonic richness but at the cost of a colder character, thinner and lighter body.

 

[LibranRabbit]

Oils ain’t oils, Sol. An old saying...

 

[LibranRabbit]

Though silver wire is roughly 7 percent more conductive than a copper wire of the same length, silver is a significantly rarer metal than copper. Combined with silver's tendency to oxidize and lose efficiency as an electrical conductor, the relatively minor increase in conductivity makes copper a more sensible option in most scenarios. Silver wire, however, is generally reserved for more sensitive systems and specialty electronics where high conductivity over a small distance is prioritized.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Though silver wire is roughly 7 percent more conductive than a copper wire of the same length, silver is a significantly rarer metal than copper.

What does rarity (or, for that matter, price) have to do with sound?

 

[zermak]

I know what sounds good and what doesn’t, I have an immense love for music and have, at last count, over a couple of thousand cd's. Many imported high quality original pressings etc... I get many people knocking this mod, but without hearing it. This cannot be compared to other type of mods for these players. I have had people in the music industry, here in Adelaide, hear this and get completely blown away by its neutrality.

It's more likely that you know what kind of sound you like to listen to and there is nothing wrong with that. We are humans and we have our preferences (thankfully!).

I am pretty sure the upgrade adds harmonic distortions and noise making some music more listenable. I even tried myself with the software Distort by @pkane and indeed music with added distortions sound more let's say fullier, maybe with more body if I am talking like a salesman. You can try it yourself and color yoru music the way you like. If Amir will be able to measure your modiefied BDP105 I am sure we can end up with an harmonic distortion signature and make every well designed DAC sounds like the upgrade, for free (at your expense tho).

 

[zermak]

The result is, one will find no difference in frequency response between pure copper and pure silver everything else being equal. Surprised?

We think that pretty much disproves the myth that silver alloy conductors are “brighter” or are “thinner on bass” relative to copper because of frequency response differences. The technology or science might not be good at measuring many aspects of sound but frequency response curves of both identical geometry conductors are pretty similar if not identical. Nevertheless, ignoring conductor geometry and other factors for now, there exists a distinct difference of sound when both type of conductors are conducting signals of music.

The main sonic characteristics of pure copper vs pure silver conductors can be summarized as follows:

While copper tends to sound warmer and has more body it is a bit slower and less harmonically rich, silver does exactly the opposite. Silver tends to sound livelier, while offering more clarity and harmonic richness but at the cost of a colder character, thinner and lighter body.

Sorry to make a new post.

The cable doesn't see any music signal no matter the quality/material. It just do what nature and pyshics laws let it do. Which in this case is having current (I=V*A) passing throught it (in forms of sinewaves(?)).

About the differences in copper and silver, it looks like more a difference of what the color of the metal suggests you rather than the actual measurements. Copper being in the warm side and silver being in the cold side (Kelvin scale for colors temperature).

 

[tecnogadget]

The result is, one will find no difference in frequency response between pure copper and pure silver everything else being equal. Surprised?

We think that pretty much disproves the myth that silver alloy conductors are “brighter” or are “thinner on bass” relative to copper because of frequency response differences. The technology or science might not be good at measuring many aspects of sound but frequency response curves of both identical geometry conductors are pretty similar if not identical. Nevertheless, ignoring conductor geometry and other factors for now, there exists a distinct difference of sound when both type of conductors are conducting signals of music.

The main sonic characteristics of pure copper vs pure silver conductors can be summarized as follows:

While copper tends to sound warmer and has more body it is a bit slower and less harmonically rich, silver does exactly the opposite. Silver tends to sound livelier, while offering more clarity and harmonic richness but at the cost of a colder character, thinner and lighter body.

Im sorry but your explanation does not make the cut, this is called Audio SCIENCE Review, copper being warmer and silver livelier is just pure speculation from your side.

“The technology or science might not be good at measuring many aspects of sound” oh boy nowadays technology is totally capable to measure and prove there is no audible difference between those two conductors.

Having some people to listen to the system and agree hoy neutral it still isn’t science. I could get pretty much everybody I know yo come to my house and listen to my system and tell them the story I want and they will agree with me and believe me because I’m very persuasive, thats just bias.
Countless times I’ve fooled guests into thinking they were listening to big bookshelfs while music was playing trough a small (good one) Bluetooth speaker hidden behind the electronics.

 

[Wes]

there exists a distinct difference of sound when both type of conductors are conducting signals of music.

The main sonic characteristics of pure copper vs pure silver conductors can be summarized as follows:

While copper tends to sound warmer and has more body it is a bit slower and less harmonically rich, silver does exactly the opposite. Silver tends to sound livelier, while offering more clarity and harmonic richness but at the cost of a colder character, thinner and lighter body.

can you post your methodology for the tests where you got those results?

 

[Sal1950]

The main sonic characteristics of pure copper vs pure silver conductors can be summarized as follows:

While copper tends to sound warmer and has more body it is a bit slower and less harmonically rich, silver does exactly the opposite. Silver tends to sound livelier, while offering more clarity and harmonic richness but at the cost of a colder character, thinner and lighter body.

Absolute Balderdash
"It was just my imagination, running away with me.
Yes it was just my imagination, running away with me."

 

[gene_stl]

Libwan Wabbit , I think you may be barking up the wrong tree here.
There is plenty for you to learn but I would say the inaudibility of spikker cables is one of the fundamental tenets of this forum. And most of us know more about the subject than you.

 

[Buster Chestnut]

Man... hook, line and sinker...

 

[Wes]

The result is, one will find no difference in frequency response between pure copper and pure silver everything else being equal. Surprised?

We think that pretty much disproves the myth that silver alloy conductors are “brighter” or are “thinner on bass” relative to copper because of frequency response differences. The technology or science might not be good at measuring many aspects of sound but frequency response curves of both identical geometry conductors are pretty similar if not identical. Nevertheless, ignoring conductor geometry and other factors for now, there exists a distinct difference of sound when both type of conductors are conducting signals of music.

The main sonic characteristics of pure copper vs pure silver conductors can be summarized as follows:

While copper tends to sound warmer and has more body it is a bit slower and less harmonically rich, silver does exactly the opposite. Silver tends to sound livelier, while offering more clarity and harmonic richness but at the cost of a colder character, thinner and lighter body.

Can you describe the methodology used in your blind listening tests?

 

[Descartes]

At our last gathering at a friend's house where we were measuring the Schiit Yggdrasil DAC, I was also asked to measure an Oppo BDP-105 player as a DAC. This player despite its age has a very positive reputation as far as fidelity. I made a complete set of measurements. I won't bore you with all of them as most were pretty good and competent until I landed on linearity test:

View attachment 11145

Yup, my jaws fell off. I repeated the measurement and still got the same. The cyan line is supposed to be the relationship between digital input and analog output. Normally it is a straight line until we get down to below -100 dB or even more. Yet here, even at the start of the test with full amplitude signal, we see clear steps in it. What it means is that the output changes proportional to input but then all of a sudden it gets stuck in a mud, refusing to change its output as we change input. The variations from zero error are shown in yellow which for an ideal line would be a flat line. Instead we have those triangles.

I put on the graph that it may be a stuck bit but I can't even explain it in that context. Clearly something is badly broken.

Looking at time domain with -90 dB we get this:

View attachment 11146

Here the sine waves look reasonable but they are shifted relative to each other. That is a larger error than I have ever seen measuring DACs.

In subjective listening I found the Oppo to sound muddy compared to my Topping DX7 that I had brought. I chalked to placebo as this was before the measurements. After the measurements I wonder if that observation was true.

Conclusions
There are people who are flippant about value of the measurements we make in the context of DACs. They think that it must be a walk in the park to achieve say, 16 bit accuracy. As we see here and in measurement of some other DACs, it is possible to screw up implementations of actual products. And that it is measurements like Linearity that bring an insight that is not visible in other measurements.

NOTE: it is possible this player was broken. I too have a BDP-105 (d) that I will test at some point.


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Did you ever check an other one? This seems very unlike OPPO?

 

[Wes]

Did you know that rabbits practice coprophagy?

 

[Descartes]

Did you know that rabbits practice coprophagy?

Yep and the point is?