Measurements of Aune S8 DAC

[Mnyb]

The text says S8 uses a specifically designed low noise PLL module from Titans Audio Lab.

But are not all IC’s you can buy “specifically designed” for their intended use a little dose marketing speak , I’ll bet it also has audio optimised op amps too or similar . Anyway seems like a good device , but with the marketing going overboard a bit . That’s not unusual, having the obvious stated , like low noise and distortion and low jitter . That’s what I expect out of DAC no one needs to tell me that , backit up with some measurement that shows why this approach xxxx can do a little bit better than yyyy . Often there are many ways to achieve similar results ?

 

[bennetng]

But are not all IC’s you can buy “specifically designed” for their intended use a little dose marketing speak , I’ll bet it also has audio optimised op amps too or similar . Anyway seems like a good device , but with the marketing going overboard a bit . That’s not unusual, having the obvious stated , like low noise and distortion and low jitter . That’s what I expect out of DAC no one needs to tell me that , backit up with some measurement that shows why this approach xxxx can do a little bit better than yyyy . Often there are many ways to achieve similar results ?

Just to avoid misunderstanding, Amir said he can't read the Chinese text from Wolf's post and I just translated the text for Amir.

 

[Mnyb]

Just to avoid misunderstanding, Amir said he can't read the Chinese text from Wolf's post and I just translated the text for Amir.

Yes , that’s good . I just made some fun about aunes marketing , did not mean anything.

 

[amirm]

The text says S8 uses a specifically designed low noise PLL module from Titans Audio Lab.

Thanks. So where does it say there is a super PLL?

 

[bennetng]

Thanks. So where does it say there is a super PLL?

Can't find a specific word can translate to "super", according to my understanding in English and Chinese.
BTW, could you share your linearity filter parameter to Wolf?

 

[WolfX-700]

Thanks. So where does it say there is a super PLL?

In fact, their official propaganda uses "low phase noise PLL".
At the same time, here is background information. Aune's subsidiary "Titan Audio Lab" has a product called: Titans Audio Lab Helen jitter reducer / signal enhancer.

The Aune S8 promotion did say that they used related technologies and suggested that the modules in Helen were installed in the S8.

(I believe Chinese readers and readers of the China Forum should have felt this kind of publicity)

I use the word "Super PLL" in the title, which is based on the promotion of S8.

 

[WolfX-700]

I first knew that S8 was actually in the following place:

http://erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2166222&extra=&authorid=530930

Publicity translations in other Chinese forums can also be used as evidence:

现在很多解码器利用ESS sabre芯片里的ASRC异步采样率转换来减小jitter，获得很高的技术指标，但ASRC的负面也是明显的，不少人反映听感上有不自然的地方，指标是高了，但听感不自然。

Now many decoders use ASRC asynchronous sampling rate conversion in the ESS sabre chip to reduce jitter and obtain high technical indicators, but the negative of ASRC is also obvious. Many people report that there is something unnatural in the sense of hearing. The indicator is It's taller, but it's unnatural to hear.

S8这个解码器采取了不同的思路，和titans audio lab合作，在解码的数字处理部分采用了定制的PLL芯片，在前端环节抑制jitter，后面不用ASRC，这一不同的方案可以取得细致、低jitter而比较自然的声音。从S8这个产品的实际听感来说，印证了这样设计的好处。

The S8 decoder adopts a different idea. In cooperation with titans audio lab, a customized PLL chip is used in the digital processing part of the decoding to suppress jitter in the front-end link, and ASRC is not used later. This different solution can achieve detailed and low jitter And more natural sound. From the actual hearing sense of the S8 product, it confirms the benefits of this design.

 

[cuddy]

In fact, their official propaganda uses "low phase noise PLL".
At the same time, here is background information. Aune's subsidiary "Titan Audio Lab" has a product called: Titans Audio Lab Helen jitter reducer / signal enhancer.

The Aune S8 promotion did say that they used related technologies and suggested that the modules in Helen were installed in the S8.

(I believe Chinese readers and readers of the China Forum should have felt this kind of publicity)

I use the word "Super PLL" in the title, which is based on the promotion of S8.

professor wolfx :
Thank you for your explanation, their wording obviously misleading or easy to let customer misunderstanding. No matter low noise or super PLL or else ...
the caption “Titan audio lab” very eye catching and considering with the cost just $5xx USD , many of the Chinese thought they are using the Helen PLL .

 

[WolfX-700]

Basically showing that aune doesn't even know how to read jitter test graph or try to lie to our face. Smh.

As if I was complaining (maybe with a little emotion), Aune ’s promotion on S8 focuses on PLL, but in fact this is whether it ’s the “Super PLL” that my title mocks or the official “Low Phasr Noise PLL” . In the end did not bring particularly excellent results.

They officially publicized even using ASR data for comparison and put their own noise line at -170db! Regardless of the ASR, the FFT length is likely to be different from what they used (in my opinion this is a bit deliberately misleading).

 

[JohnYang1997]

As if I was complaining (maybe with a little emotion), Aune ’s promotion on S8 focuses on PLL, but in fact this is whether it ’s the “Super PLL” that my title mocks or the official “Low Phasr Noise PLL” . In the end did not bring particularly excellent results.

They officially publicized even using ASR data for comparison and put their own noise line at -170db! Regardless of the ASR, the FFT length is likely to be different from what they used (in my opinion this is a bit deliberately misleading).

The noise floor doesn't tell anything. It's the sideband that's important in the j-test. They didn't achieve good result comparing to other ess based dacs.

 

[WolfX-700]

The noise floor doesn't tell anything. It's the sideband that's important in the j-test. They didn't achieve good result comparing to other ess based dacs.

I just said it was misleading. Here is an excerpt from a comment on the Chinese forum:

【I saw（Aune S8） yesterday that the public account was officially released
The phase-locked loop technology of titans is decentralized. The measured jitter graph does have excellent performance (and it can be seen that the noise floor of this machine is very, very low, although the indicators have not been disclosed. The bottom noise line on the figure is close to -170dB, which SNR can be estimated to be more than 130dB】

 

[JohnYang1997]

I just said it was misleading. Here is an excerpt from a comment on the Chinese forum:

【I saw（Aune S8） yesterday that the public account was officially released
The phase-locked loop technology of titans is decentralized. The measured jitter graph does have excellent performance (and it can be seen that the noise floor of this machine is very, very low, although the indicators have not been disclosed. The bottom noise line on the figure is close to -170dB, which SNR can be estimated to be more than 130dB】

Yea I was agreeing with you and took a little further.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I just said it was misleading. Here is an excerpt from a comment on the Chinese forum:

【I saw（Aune S8） yesterday that the public account was officially released
The phase-locked loop technology of titans is decentralized. The measured jitter graph does have excellent performance (and it can be seen that the noise floor of this machine is very, very low, although the indicators have not been disclosed. The bottom noise line on the figure is close to -170dB, which SNR can be estimated to be more than 130dB】

看了帖子 那人说话语气很恶心

 

[WolfX-700]

看了帖子 那人说话语气很恶心

I have also complained before about the difference between Aune's products and promotions ... (in the previous S8 post)

 

[Veri]

It's a shame though. "back in the days", Aune S16 was a really good product. DIY product that had gone to market.
I hope they improve rather than keep on current track.

 

[WolfX-700]

So, when I saw this J-Test result, I did have a little irony inside, and used the description "Super PLL" in the title to express a little ridicule

 

[Feyire]

The graph above though is just showing lower noise floor of their DAC. They too are showing many spikes as your measurements. The lower noise floor does expose more spurious tones which are hidden in DACs with higher noise levels.

That's how I see it too. In other words, the measurements from @WolfX-700 confirm what Aune are advertising (lower noise floor), so I don't see what problem Wolf is referring to?

 

[Veri]

I just said it was misleading. Here is an excerpt from a comment on the Chinese forum:

【I saw（Aune S8） yesterday that the public account was officially released
The phase-locked loop technology of titans is decentralized. The measured jitter graph does have excellent performance (and it can be seen that the noise floor of this machine is very, very low, although the indicators have not been disclosed. The bottom noise line on the figure is close to -170dB, which SNR can be estimated to be more than 130dB】

They are marketing it as something it's not. I think that's the point @WolfX-700 is trying to make.

Is it audible? No. But considering the PLL is not as good as they're making it out to be (USB is fine though), and the IMD hum problem is not solved, I don't see this as a very attractive offering.

 

[bennetng]

http://erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2166222&extra=&authorid=530930

erji.net? While I have never been a member in these Chinese forums I do remember a member called pkshan/senn5 there. I knew about him in newsgroups since 1999. A very disgusting guy.

As for these typical "measurements cannot represent hearing" claims, why measure them in the first place? The fact is when their products measure better than their competitors in some aspects, they often emphasize those aspects, and claim the weaker aspects as unimportant or invalid. In this way they always "win".

 

[August]

erji.net? While I have never been a member in these Chinese forums I do remember a member called pkshan/senn5 there. I knew about him in newsgroups since 1999. A very disgusting guy.

As for these typical "measurements cannot represent hearing" claims, why measure them in the first place? The fact is when their products measure better than their competitors in some aspects, they often emphasize those aspects, and claim the weaker aspects as unimportant or invalid. In this way they always "win".

Some manufacturers even hire such people, which is very disgusting.