Measurements and Review of SMSL iDEA and AudioQuest Dragonfly Black DACs

[Jimster480]

Not yet. I converted a couple of tests to USB which you saw in this review. The linearity one takes more work to convert. The -90 dB sine wave is a good time domain approximation of it though.

I know but the ENOB graph is easier to read

 

[Sal1950]

This is a detailed measurement and comparison of SMSL iDEA and AudioQuest Dragonfly Black DAC and headphone amplifiers. Both of these are diminutive devices in the form of "USB thumb drives." The SMSL iDEA is $86 with prime shipping from Amazon. The Dragonfly Black will cost a few more ice cream bars at $99 with prime shipping.

OK, now for the $1millon dollar question, why?
I don't mean to be overly negative but outside of making the manufacturers money, what real purpose or need do these products fill?
Maybe I'm not connected to this device world good enough but I don't understand under what circumstances I would reasonably run out and get one of these, then get my moneys worth of improvement in SQ? Would they really offer a jump in SQ over the average mid-level laptops headphone out jack?
For the heck of it I just plugged my HD650s into my junky ole HP laptop and listening to a couple 24/96 files (Marvin Gaye - What's Goin On) it doesn't sound too bad and getting comfortable listening level at 85%, at 100% it's fairly loud at a point I wouldn't listen at this level for very long. Not seeing from the review what improvements these two would offer. If I wanted to make a significant improvement I'd spend a bit more be getting one of the real DAC/amps that have been reviewed here.
Thumb Drive DAC's, Where's the beef?

 

[Jimster480]

OK, now for the $1millon dollar question, why?
I don't mean to be overly negative but outside of making the manufacturers money, what real purpose or need do these products fill?
Maybe I'm not connected to this device world good enough but I don't understand under what circumstances I would reasonably run out and get one of these, then get my moneys worth of improvement in SQ? Would they really offer a jump in SQ over the average mid-level laptops headphone out jack?
For the heck of it I just plugged my HD650s into my junky ole HP laptop and listening to a couple 24/96 files (Marvin Gaye - What's Goin On) it doesn't sound too bad and getting comfortable listening level at 85%, at 100% it's fairly loud at a point I wouldn't listen at this level for very long. Not seeing from the review what improvements these two would offer. If I wanted to make a significant improvement I'd spend a bit more be getting one of the real DAC/amps that have been reviewed here.
Thumb Drive DAC's, Where's the beef?

There are many devices with straight piss poor output characteristics.
especially driving an HD650 but even driving much easier to drive headphones they sound much worse. So I can understand the need for devices like this, I purchased a FiiO K1 (a device I'm dying for Amir to review) and its SQ improvement was very noticeable over my PC's ALC892 even with $40 headphones. With the Aeon its a night and day difference, the ALC892 just sounds flat even if it does achieve the volume easily.

 

[amirm]

Thumb Drive DAC's, Where's the beef?

The #1 application for these is to attach to a cell phone and listen to better fidelity with larger/less efficient headphones on the run. They are not for desktop use.

 

[amirm]

Speaking of portable headphone use, here are the power consumption for each unit:

Dragonfly Black: 0.05 amp no headphone, 0.06 amp headphone

SMSL iDEA: 0.13 amp no headphone, 0.13 with headphone

So the SMSL uses double the power compared to Dragonfly Black.

 

[Sal1950]

I tested both units with three of my headphones: Sennheiser HD650, HiFiMan HE400i, and Grado SR 60e. If levels are not matched, the SMSL iDEA easily blows away the Dragonfly Black. With HD650 especially, the Dragonfly Black simply has insufficient drive. It produces anemic and too low of a level to be usable for my ears.

The #1 application for these is to attach to a cell phone and listen to better fidelity with larger/less efficient headphones on the run.

Understood, but considering what you wrote against what I just experienced I kind of question just how much there really is to gain?
Maybe you might give a listen on a couple of your own devices with and without these widgets and see how much more drive you get on the difficult 650s.
Just a thought.

 

[John Charin]

The #1 application for these is to attach to a cell phone and listen to better fidelity with larger/less efficient headphones on the run. They are not for desktop use.

Speaking of which, unfortunately the SMSL IDEA appears to not play very nicely with Android devices. I bought a Sabaj Da2 (which is supposedly the same device) and it was very problematic, often just producing a series of clicks when plugged into a google pixel. I've read the same about about the SMSL. Unfortunate because to my ear it sounded great and was a nice solution to my DACless phone. Anyway thanks for the review, I was curious how it measures!

 

[sejarzo]

The #1 application for these is to attach to a cell phone and listen to better fidelity with larger/less efficient headphones on the run. They are not for desktop use.

I'm a tightwad who won't buy a small DAP. I have a Fiio K1 and HiFiMan RE400s to use with my laptop on the road. There's a lot of odd noise on my Lenovo's headphone output at times that I don't get with the K1. The K1 and a short USB cable fit in the IEM case, and virtually all of my music library is ripped onto a hard drive that takes the place of the optical drive in my Lenovo now.

 

[amirm]

Speaking of which, unfortunately the SMSL IDEA appears to not play very nicely with Android devices. I bought a Sabaj Da2 (which is supposedly the same device) and it was very problematic, often just producing a series of clicks when plugged into a google pixel. I've read the same about about the SMSL. Unfortunate because to my ear it sounded great and was a nice solution to my DACless phone. Anyway thanks for the review, I was curious how it measures!

Welcome to the forum John. Yes I read a lot about compatibility of it with Android phones. Some people said you can contact them and get a special firmware that fixes the issues???

 

[amirm]

I'm a tightwad who won't buy a small DAP. I have a Fiio K1 and HiFiMan RE400s to use with my laptop on the road. There's a lot of odd noise on my Lenovo's headphone output at times that I don't get with the K1. The K1 and a short USB cable fit in the IEM case, and virtually all of my music library is ripped onto a hard drive that takes the place of the optical drive in my Lenovo now.

I am with you. I have no use for yet another audio player. My phone and tablet are it and they are much easier to use than any portable player I have seen.

 

[sejarzo]

I am with you. I have no use for yet another audio player. My phone and tablet are it and they are much easier to use than any portable player I have seen.

I ended up with a detached retina after cataract surgery a while back. Sold my Cowon D2 because it was hard to use even before my vision problems with its tiny touchscreen, and impossible to use thereafter. Only bought it when that was one of the smallest DAPs to offer FLAC playback and smartphones weren't yet so smart.

 

[Zilfallion]

OK, now for the $1millon dollar question, why?
...
Thumb Drive DAC's, Where's the beef?

So, in my experience. I've had laptops with really good headphone jacks, and really BAD headphone jacks. Where I see this product, is it's small size, something you can pack with a laptop or cellphone, use it for either, but just straight plug into to help clean up an inferior quality integrated DAC/Amp.

That being said, I do think they are better options for phone use than something like the Dragonfly(have we seen an E17k tested? I don't remember seeing it, but could have forgotten). DAPs as well. I think this comes from the convenience of just being able to plug it into a USB port and turn that USB port into a decent quality audio jack. If you have a really bad audio implementation on your laptop, this helps. If you have a modern motherboard in a desktop, this probably isn't super required since onboard seems to be getting better.

 

[tili]

my onboard has audible hiss when connected to an amp, SMSL idea might be what I need. on the other hand, K1 is cheaper if I want to connect an amp to it

 

[John Charin]

Welcome to the forum John. Yes I read a lot about compatibility of it with Android phones. Some people said you can contact them and get a special firmware that fixes the issues???

Thank you! I heard that about the firmware as well, but it was a little beyond the effort I was willing to put in. I believe I read it is an irreversible downgrade of the firmware, but I'm not totally positive. More importantly in my case, it wasn't quite clear to me how to do that with the Sabaj product. If they could fix these issues I think this is a great offering by SMSL and Sabaj.

 

[Old Listener]

OK, now for the $1millon dollar question, why?
I don't mean to be overly negative but outside of making the manufacturers money, what real purpose or need do these products fill?
Maybe I'm not connected to this device world good enough but I don't understand under what circumstances I would reasonably run out and get one of these, then get my moneys worth of improvement in SQ? Would they really offer a jump in SQ over the average mid-level laptops headphone out jack?
For the heck of it I just plugged my HD650s into my junky ole HP laptop and listening to a couple 24/96 files (Marvin Gaye - What's Goin On) it doesn't sound too bad and getting comfortable listening level at 85%, at 100% it's fairly loud at a point I wouldn't listen at this level for very long. Not seeing from the review what improvements these two would offer. If I wanted to make a significant improvement I'd spend a bit more be getting one of the real DAC/amps that have been reviewed here.
Thumb Drive DAC's, Where's the beef?

"Thumb Drive" DACs serve a purpose for me.

I use a Dragonfly Red "Thumb Drive" DAC in my home office feeding audio to Audioengine HD6 powered speakers for near field listening. Works fine for me.

In my main system, I currently use an Audioengine D3 "Thumb Drive" DAC. Audio comes from a Win 10 i5 laptop or a Intel atom class NUC running Linux. Output goes through a Bryston made external active crossover and 6 channels of amplification to 3 way speakers. I've used other DACs in that system over many years and don't find the Audioengine DAC to be lacking.

Both systems have a single input feeding the DAC and a single output to powered speakers. Amir's test results and Archimago's show that DACs using USB power can perform well. I made a considered decision years ago to stick with 24/96 and lower bit depth/sample rate digital files. In practice, very few of the recordings that I value most are available in high resolution formats. I also made my own decision on the level of noise and distortion that I can live with. (That I expect to be inaudible.)

 

[amirm]

my onboard has audible hiss when connected to an amp, SMSL idea might be what I need. on the other hand, K1 is cheaper if I want to connect an amp to it

I did a few casual tests against the K1 and sadly, its measured performance is worse than SMSL iDEA. Will need to repeat the tests again to be sure but thought I share that with you.

 

[amirm]

In my main system, I currently use an Audioengine D3 "Thumb Drive" DAC.

FYI member asked me about reviewing that and there was a refurbished one from factory for $49 so I ordered it.

 

[bhigh]

I'm a tightwad who won't buy a small DAP. I have a Fiio K1 and HiFiMan RE400s to use with my laptop on the road. There's a lot of odd noise on my Lenovo's headphone output at times that I don't get with the K1. The K1 and a short USB cable fit in the IEM case, and virtually all of my music library is ripped onto a hard drive that takes the place of the optical drive in my Lenovo now.

I have a K1 that I use with my Macbook Pro and RE-600S when travelling. It's certainly not as good as a desktop setup, but it blows away my phone (Galaxy S8+).

Unfortunately the K1 doesn't work with the S8+. It worked fine with my Nexus 6P and works with my wife's Pixel so it seems to be a vendor issue.

 

[bhigh]

(have we seen an E17k tested? I don't remember seeing it, but could have forgotten).

Amir did some measurements on my E07K recently. As I recall it looked OK but had a DC offset through the L7 line-out dock. (I don't think we looked at the headphone out.) The offset was slightly negative when running off of USB power, and slightly positive when running off of battery.

 

[Timbo2]

Understood, but considering what you wrote against what I just experienced I kind of question just how much there really is to gain?
Maybe you might give a listen on a couple of your own devices with and without these widgets and see how much more drive you get on the difficult 650s.
Just a thought.

I can tell you that I'm the odd usage case. My Android based Essential Phone requires an external DAC. The added benefit is that I can use the same DAC + USB extension cable to my HTPC and use Kodi plus a remote control to play my music. This lets me keep the PC volume at 100% and use the DAC at my seat to adjust the volume. But like you I find that there is a market for these things surprising.

I have the Sabaj Da3 - which is similar in design, but with two SABRE 9018q2c DACs. I can recommend it, but it consumes noticeably more power than the small DAC that came with my phone. I'd likely save the money and by the iDEA or the Da2 if I did it over again. I'd imagine with one less DAC to support it uses less power. Although the display on the Da3 is really handy!

I also have had some of the same issues getting the device recognized on my phone and frequently the easiset thing to do is just connect it and restart the phone. That always works. It works well on Windows, but you need to use the cusomized XMOS drivers available on their respective web sites.